Dresdor's Thistle Guide

In searching for information on thistle, I've found that most of the references are to the T3 Twisted Thistle Guide. This is a good guide, and where I got started, but I find that anything from the T3 wiki could always use an update. Also I've been approached by several players who are confused by the old guide and by the current thistle system. As such, I'm going to make an attempt to explain my process to making thistle.

If you have no interest in making thistle, but need it to advance your stuck silk farms, I suggest the Thistle request page.

Also I am creating a collection of my no-void recipes, and I encourage you to add your own Thistle Methods. This is meant primarily to provide shortcuts to being able to make the thistle you need.

I use File:ThistleSim.zip to plan out my attempts. I highly recommend it.

There is also File:Thistle.zip for linux. On Talos page you will find some info for running under windows.

The Basics

Thistle is typed by the concentrations of seven vitamins (Asc, Bio, Car, Fol, Nia, Pyr, and Thi). Concentrations less than or equal to 20 are represented as a - sign. Concentrations between 21-79 are represented by the ~ sign. Concentrations higher than 80 are represented by a + sign. Silkworms require a thistle with four vitamin requirements (the other three do not matter) and Modern Sheep Farms require thistle with two vitamin requirements (the other five do not matter).

The concentrations of these vitamins are controlled by a series of reactions. These reactions are controlled by levels of Water, Oxygen, and Sun. These reactions convert one vitamin into another. This is complicated by the fact that there are certain reactions that are "voided"; that is to say they are not active during a specific time frame. in a specific region. These change over a period of time, and from region to region (it's been shown that it is not every egypt day, nor are the boundaries those of the actual regions). (<--That information is incorrect, there is no such thing as regional voids. Voids change at the same time Ant Leaves change. Voids are uniform across Egypt. I will fight anyone who disagrees! ~Ajars)

The goal of growing thistle is to end the growing process with vitamin concentrations in the ranges for the thistle you need. Vitamin levels at any point before tick 40 doesn't matter. You can only harvest at Tick 40 (if you harvest before you loose the thistle and the thistle seeds).

I use the tool File:ThistleSim.zip extensively. Many thanks to the coder(s) of this useful tool.

The Process

Some things to note before we begin:

• Asc is impossible to generate and maintain at night without a lucky set of voids.
• Bio is never consumed by any reaction, so if you need B- or B~ keep an eye on it.
• Pyr and Fol are very easy to produce.
• Asc, Car, Nia, and Thi are more difficult to produce and maintain.
• Growing at 10am-2pm and 10pm-2am ensures a stable amount of sun (100 and 0 respectfully)

I use a method that does not use any inputs but water. This limits the thistle I can make, but also means that any I can make I make for free. Adding Dung and Saltpeter can be done to boost vitamin levels, and can be used with my method, I just choose not to do it.

Referencing the tables at the bottom of this guide will show that each vitamin has three generation reactions, one controlled by every environmental factor (Water, Oxygen, Sun). It will also show that each vitamin has a varying number of consumption reactions, and there is no distinct pattern to the environmental factors controlling them.

There are three types of reactions:

• Those that diminish quantity (10 Pot -> 3.33 Car)
• Those that maintain quantity (10 Asc -> 10 Car)
• Those that increase quantity (10 Thi -> 20 Car)

The goal of my method is to create a generation mechanism that results in an increase in quantity. The concept is to maximize the utility of the small amount of vitamins you get for "free" by the garden always starting with 50 nit and 50 pot. To create this mechanism, I look at what my requirements are that are high concentration (all +). I discard B+, P+, and F+ as there are easy to create. If there are no others, I look for the moderate requirements (~). Using that vitamin as a goal, I look for a reaction chain that I can use as a generation mechanism. For example, for Asc, I use the chain 10Asc->10Thi; 10Thi->20Fol; 10Fol->20Asc; This should give us a four-fold increase of Asc. In practice, it is less than that because of the reaction 10Asc->10Car; However, it is still a powerful increasing mechanism.

I then, with the help of thistle sim, create a process to maximize Asc using this mechanism. Looking at the reactions, it's clear I need to manipulate sunlight, and to prevent Asc from draining into Bio, I need to keep Water higher than 29. After I have a strong level of Asc, I look to see what else I need. I then reference the reactions and try to figure out a way to generate the other vitamin requirements from what I currently have. The idea is that once you have a lot of vitamins in your thistle, it shouldn't be difficult to transmute some of them into the concentrations you need.

Testing

Once you have your process, you should test it. If it works, congratulations, make as much as you need. If it doesn't, there's a void present that is interfering with your growing. With thistle sim, it is easy to figure out the voids, either by turning off the reactions one by one until your result matches that of your thistle bed, or by checking at what step the thistle bed went off in a different direction, and checking what reactions were active there. In either case, shut off the appropriate reaction, and try again.

• It will not be possible to make every thistle every time. Some will almost require you to have a lucky void to make.

Sample Generation Mechanisms

Day: 10Asc->10Thi; 10Thi->20Fol; 10Fol->20Asc;

Night:

• • Will be updated later

Asc

Generation
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Nit -> 3.33 Asc	Water > 79
10 Car -> 5 Asc	Oxygen <49
10 Fol -> 20 Asc	Sun > 69

Consumption
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Asc -> 20 Bio	Water < 29
10 Asc -> 10 Car	Sun > 79
10 Asc -> 20 Nia	Sun < 20
10 Asc -> 10 Thi	Sun < 40

Bio

Generation
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Pot -> 2.5 Bio	Sun < 20
10 Asc -> 20 Bio	Water < 29
10 Pyr -> 10 Bio	Oxygen > 89

• Bio is never consumed

Car

Generation
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Pot -> 3.33 Car	Oxygen > 69
10 Asc -> 10 Car	Sun > 79
10 Thi -> 20 Car	Water < 39

Consumption
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Car -> 5 Asc	Oxygen < 49
10 Car -> 10 Pyr	Sun > 59
10 Car -> 20 Thi	Oxygen < 49

Fol

Generation
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Pot -> 2.5 Fol	Sun > 69
10 Nia -> 30 Fol	Water < 59
10 Thi -> 20 Fol	Oxygen < 49

Consumption
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Fol -> 20 Asc	Sun > 69
10 Fol -> 20 Pyr	Oxygen > 79

Nia

Generation
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Asc -> 20 Nia	Sun < 20
10 Pyr -> 5 Nia	Water > 69
10 Thi -> 10 Nia	Oxygen <39

Consumption
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Nia -> 30 Fol	Water < 59
10 Nia -> 5 Thi	Water < 49

Pyr

Generation
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Nit -> 3.33 Pyr	Water < 39
10 Car -> 10 Pyr	Sun > 59
10 Fol -> 20 Pyr	Oxygen > 79

Consumption
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Pyr -> 10 Bio	Oxygen > 89
10 Pyr -> 5 Nia	Water > 69

Thi

Generation
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Asc -> 10 Thi	Sun < 40
10 Car -> 20 Thi	Oxygen < 49
10 Nia -> 5 Thi	Water < 49

Consumption
Reaction	Environment Requirement
10 Thi -> 20 Car	Water < 39
10 Thi -> 20 Fol	Oxygen < 49
10 Thi -> 10 Nia	Oxygen < 39

Reactions in Process Order

Process Order
Water	Oxygen	Sun
10 Nit -> 3.33 Asc (>79)	10 Car -> 5 Asc (<49)	10 Fol -> 20 Asc (>69)
10 Asc -> 20 Bio (<29)	10 Pyr -> 10 Bio (>89)	10 Pot -> 2.5 Bio (<20)
10 Thi -> 20 Car (<39)	10 Pot -> 3.33 Car (>69)	10 Asc -> 10 Car (>79)
10 Nia -> 30 Fol (<59)	10 Thi -> 20 Fol (<49)	10 Pot -> 2.5 Fol (>69)
10 Pyr -> 5 Nia (>69)	10 Thi -> 10 Nia (<39)	10 Asc -> 20 Nia (<20)
10 Nit -> 3.33 Pyr (<39)	10 Fol -> 20 Pyr (>79)	10 Car -> 10 Pyr (>59)
10 Nia -> 5 Thi (<49) 10 Car -> 20 Thi (<49)	10 Asc -> 10 Thi (<40)

Reactions in Environmental Factor Order

Environmental Order
Water	Oxygen	Sun
10 Nit -> 3.33 Asc (>79)	10 Pyr -> 10 Bio (>89)	10 Asc -> 10 Car (>79)
10 Pyr -> 5 Nia (>69)	10 Fol -> 20 Pyr (>79)	10 Fol -> 20 Asc (>69)
	10 Pot -> 3.33 Car (>69)	10 Pot -> 2.5 Fol (>69)
10 Nia -> 30 Fol (<59)		10 Car -> 10 Pyr (>59)
10 Nia -> 5 Thi (<49)	10 Car -> 5 Asc (<49)
10 Thi -> 20 Car (<39)	10 Thi -> 20 Fol (<49)	10 Asc -> 10 Thi (<40)
10 Nit -> 3.33 Pyr (<39)	10 Car -> 20 Thi (<49)	10 Pot -> 2.5 Bio (<20)
10 Asc -> 20 Bio (<29)	10 Thi -> Nia (<39)	10 Asc -> 20 Nia (<20)