GOO Events/Flower Talk

Dreasimy: Welcome all to a Discussion about all things Flowers! Our honored guest is Ariella!

Dreasimy: Hi Ariella! First off why don't you tell us about yourself and why flowers are so utterly cool :)

Ariella: Sure :)

Ariella: In real life I have lots and lots of flowers! Both outside in the yard and inside. Currently I grow orchids but have had african violets and lots of other indorr plants.

Ariella: I love not just flowers but other plants too. Growing things is like making life and I love that.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: African Violets are hard to bloom, but I managed to do it:)

Dreasimy: So you've written some guides on the wiki about genetics and crossbreeding and whatnot, is that something the average player can participate in?

Ariella: I'm an artist in real life too and enjoy using color in what I do. About the Guides...

Ariella: That information has been researched and tested especially in Tale 3 with advanced understandings into Tale 4. Although I did first start cross breeding in Tale 2 when very little was known.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: I've made 32 Solvents at level 10, so it's pretty easy

Ariella: Yes the average player can have enormous and colorful fun with crossbreeding :)

Dreasimy: I know you do a lot of work trying to get flower and genetics related research opened at every U in every Region so we can get more flowers and things... can you talk about why its important to open in every reason, and where are we at now, what most needs to be done

Dreasimy: reason = region ;D

Ariella: That has been misunderstood and confusing why we need certain techs open in each region. The first tech we push is Advanced Horticulture. Once that is opened, that region is able to hand out one lily. Be careful, though, each avatar is allowed only one lily from one Advanced Horticulture UWorship (your choice of region). Some players ask around and save their lily allotment until later if their friends are able to give them a split of other lilies.

Ariella: At this point all regions have opened their Horticulture. I think I mistyped. I meant Horticulture, not Advanced Horticulture. There will be duplicate lilies in different regions, such as Vampire can be gotten from Adn, Meroe, and Stillwater. Even though there are duplicate lilies, Horticulture is a key in unlocking both roses and Mutagenics. So that is the other reason why we need that tech opened in every region.

Ariella: The tech tree to roses is -----> Horticulture, Advanced Horticulture, Xenobotany (4 unique lily requirements involved).

Dreasimy: I like roses (they are my favorite)

Ariella: And 'building' those Xenobotany lilies very often involves mutagens.

Dreasimy: Why does it seem so hard to unlock roses this tale?

Ariella: Okay, we're all slightly familiar with teppybugs...

Ariella: Last tale there was only one Xenobotany call for an all double base color lily. We never did get that Xenobotany opened because 'someone' did not realize it was impossible to build a 64 gene lily given the length of the lily genomes we had at the time. Thus Dusk lily was born but too late in the tale.

Elfus: What do you mean with all double base color?

Ariella: Seems teppy's memory has not improved...so this tale we have two All petals double color lily requirements...and no flower with a genome long enough yet

Pascalito: blue, green and red are double base, given that gene sets produce cyan, yellow and magenta. So you need 2 base colors to get green, red or magenta.

Ariella: Just for a quick explanation, a Xenobotany lily requirement must have a shade 2 of a color also. But I think at this point that an explanation of basics should start...and then we will come back to that question.

Pascalito: More specifically Meroe Xeno need an All Blue Petal lily

Dreasimy: (BTW Im /copying all of this so I can post it on the wiki later!)

Pascalito: Good idea, ty Dreasimy.

Ariella: To begin with (I hope this doesn't blow circiuts in your mind) the colors on flowers are cyan, magenta, yellow or surface subtractive. Don't worry about that term. Most are familiar with RGB monitors or red, green, blue. Those are additive colors. For our purposes remember...cyan, yellow, magenta are base colors.

Dreasimy: CMYK!

Pascalito: Red= Yellow+Magenta, Blue=Magenta+Cyan, Green= Cyan+Yellow

Dreasimy: sorry I had an outburst <controls herself>

Pascalito: White is no colors at all, like Silken lily

Ariella: If you're an artist or way back in first grade you learned primary colors...red, yellow, blue. Secondary colors were combinations of two primary colors. So maybe that helps understand. Just with computer colors primary colors are a little different. So primary colors on flowers are cyan, magenta, and yellow to repeat. Pascalito identified secondary colors.

Ariella: Easy so far on primary and secondary colors?

Dreasimy: I think I get it CYM are digital colors where red blue yellow red are primary print colors

Pascalito: Yellow+Magenta+Cyan gives gray (a shade of Black in fact)

Ariella: Yes, all primary colors together will make black.

Dreasimy: Ok does anyone have questions on the COLOR stuff or should we move on? :D

Tor el-Wati: If anyone cares, there is a fairly good explaination of additive and subtractive colours on http://ian-albert.com/graphics/addsubcolor.php I was trying to explain this to a friend the other day =P

Dreasimy: tor el-wati could you put the link on seperate line and post again?

Dreasimy: that lets people get a hyperlink in game (if they have new chat enabled)

Tor el-Wati: http://ian-albert.com/graphics/addsubcolor.php

Dreasimy: ty

Dreasimy: Okie I think we are ready to move to Genetics for Dummies, if there are no more questions on Color :D

Ariella: In case there are really new players, look on Wiki on the left side of the page under Guides. You will see Genetics as a main heading and then find Genetics for Dummies.

Ariella: A tongue in cheek title lol

Dreasimy: <--dummy

Ariella: Every plant in atitd that is cross breedable has a genome...similar to DNA.

Ariella: A gene is a base unit in the genome. In atitd it is expressed as a color...like there are four base units of DNA. But in atitd the gene is a color.

Ariella: In flowers there are 8 base color genes.

Ariella: Black is technically a color gene because it is included in every plant genome. But in real practice the Black color gene is only a way of showing the beginning and ending of a genome.

Ariella: A small example...

Ariella: Let's say a genome (when you use a solvent in a greenhouse and we'll come back to that) shows a genome as Black Yellow Green Red Black or we'll abbreviate to K Y G R K for the entire genome.

Ariella: Notice the Black color gene is at the beginning of the genome and at the end.

Dreasimy: Because the letter K = Black

Ariella: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Genomes_and_Phenome_Theories_Links

Ariella: Take a look there to see that every plant genome which includes flowers, wheat, flax, vines all have beginning and ending Black or K color genes.

Ariella: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Genetics_for_Dummies

Ariella: Check this last page to see a list of the other 7 basic color genes and their abbreviations.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Question: If solvents can show up to 7 genoemes, how do we find the 44 for energy?

Ariella: A quick note here on that subject. You will see that we abbreviated taking the first letter of each color gene, like Y for Yellow. But you also see there was Black and Blue. So we decided to use K for Black and U for Blue.

Wrongskian: the terminology's always been a little confusing to me... what we call "genes" in game seem more like base pairs to me

Pascalito: We'll come to solvents a bit later on, we'll try to answer the question then.

Ariella: Like base DNA pairs? But if we say pairs that is inaccurate. Each color gene is separate and not intrinsically linked. The next term is gene sets.

Wrongskian: well fine, nucleotides, then, like RNA

Ariella: Understanding what a gene and genome is will allow you to go from random cross breeding to deliberate manipulation of genomes.

Ariella: Simplified, you can make a flower deeper pink on specific petals. Or make a rose a double giant. Or make flax yield more seeds.

Ariella: Take a look at the Genetics for Dummies link and there will be a pretty picture to show an example of what you see in game of a partial set of color genes.

Ariella: At first that is what we saw when we used solvents. We had no idea what the heck those colors had to do with the plant.

Ariella: Next step. Would sets of those genes as we called them (and Wrongskian it is an empirical term we decided to use for simplicity)...

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Chop DNA in half length-ways, and you have ATITD Genetics

Ariella: maybe be used in sets to make the pretty colors we see in flowers? Or maybe the differing sizes? Thanks Peace :)

Ariella: So we took months of shroom pickin' and cactus sap gathering to make solvents and slowly piece together some lily genomes.

Ariella: Thus that first link above was born. Thirdly, we started comparing groups of genes to see if they showed up in lilies with the same colors or sizes.

Ariella: And yes...we started seeing some trends...GOOO sets, UYYY sets, etc. Eventually, with mutagen building especially we deliberately changed genes to make a set and found the flower color or size did indeed change. So the Flower Theories were born.

Pascalito: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Flower_Genome_Theories

Ariella: Gene sets...several color genes grouped together to produce an attribute of a plant (not just flowers).

Pascalito: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Flax_Genome_Theories

Ariella: Why is this important to know about gene sets? Do you want to randomly use Nut's Essence to have new baby flowers only? Or do you want to deliberately form your baby flowers to have certain colors? Your choice! Mystery is quite fun! But for those who want a little more challenge then a knowledge of genes, gene sets and genomes is needed :)

Ariella: Any other questions so far?

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: How do you find the entire genome, when solvents are limited to 7 genes?

Ariella: You gather loads of shrooms, make loads of solvents to get strings of genes. Then you slowly piece the puzzle together. From the Genomes and Theories link above, try clicking on one of the wheat names Akhet Wheat: Candomble to see that solvent data a

Pascalito: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Guides/Genomes_and_Phenomes_Theories_Links/Akhet_Wheat:_Candomble

Ariella: To see that solvent data and how we pieced together the entire genome.

Ariella: Be careful...

Ariella: Gene sets that produce color or size or number of grapes or extra flax seeds is different than random strings of color genes given back by solvents.

Pascalito: Notice that some plants have repeating genes, like some vines have 7 or more G genes, or Crown has repeating gene sets. Then we need more than just hitting the plant with solvents to find out the full genome.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: So you figure if it does this, it must have that gene set?

Pascalito: *7 or more G genes in a row

Ariella: Dreasimy asked for a fun example to use for cross breeding :) Big is always better ;)

Pascalito: Yes Peace, with loads of comparing and testing.

Ariella: Look at the Genomes and Theories page when you have time. For now, the gene set that makes a lily grow one size larger is Red Orange Yellow Green or ROYG.

Pascalito: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Flower_Genome_Theories

Ariella: Fracture sea lily genome has not one but two giant gene sets.

Ariella: But you ask then why isn't it a humongous flower?

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Question: What can an average/slighty above average citizan do to help out?

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: It's got a dwarf gene too, making it a semi-dwarf?

Ariella: Because it also has one dwarf gene set...GYOR (I'll start just using abbreviations for color genes now). Oooohw, twicky devs, they made the dwarf and giant gene sets mirror images ;)

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Ha! I was right!

Ariella: By deduction we realized over time that one dwarf gene set balances or normalizes two giant gene sets in sea lilies. That does not hold true for all other flower types.

Ariella: No, Fracture is a standard size lily, so we realized how the dwarf and giant gene sets worked for lilies.

Pascalito: Help goes from logistical support with materials (mostly specific mushrooms and ANY herb seeds) up to going into it more deeply and trying to build new hybrids, discover gene sets, make/discover mutagens.

Ariella: General cross breeding fun....a small knowledge that ROYG in a sea lily genome will pop out a giantx1. Look at Fracture genome and you see the two giant gene sets it has are on the left side of the genome.

Ariella: Over time we also saw another trend this brings up. Basically speaking what is put in the Left Splint of a greenhouse will have the left genes retained from the genome and incorporated into the child flower or plant.

Ariella: Same with the Right Splint.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Question: How do we determine the splint points? Ariella: So knowing this, if you put Fracture in the Left Splint and another bulb in the Right Splint you will have chances to get child flowers of not only giantx1 but giantx2 size :)

Ariella: Why aren't all the child flowers giants? Same reason Fracture is not. Because it depends on where the splice point happens. If it retains the two giant gene sets AND the dwarf gene set...no luck. Standard size.

Ariella: Good question Peace :) Take a look at your shiny new child flower and note it's color and sizes.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Question: How do we determine the splice points?

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Ooops

Ariella: Whip out the Flower Genome Theories page and compare the color and size gene sets in mama and papa flowers (the flowers in the Left and Right Splints). You can see in the genomes approximately where the splice point occurred.

Ariella: Recently in this tale Pascalito discovered that we can deduce all possible splice points. But that is in our Advanced Cross Breeding guide.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Do we know the approximate splice points for all the flowers

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: ?

Dreasimy: I need to also ask a question before we start to wrap it up: What is the current state of research needed in various regions to get everything unlocked that we need to unlock... everything we need flower and genetics related :) Lke if I had 3 khefre's essences in my pocket where should I take them and why? :D

Ariella: Peace, right now we'll stick to basics. Seeing splice points will take more explanation but it is not beyond the average player.

Dreasimy: Any one else have some other basic level questions before we wrap up? :D

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: ok

Dreasimy: We can have a more advanced chat perhaps another time? :D

Ariella: At this point...all Horticultures are unlocked in every region. All lilies are out there to get.

Pascalito: And always feel free to chat us with your questions.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Except Dusk.

TeaAira: thank you so much for the info! :) really appreciate your time and sharing your knowlege

Pascalito: Dusk is no Uni rose, like SIlken and Energy.

Pascalito: *lily i mean

Dreasimy: Ariella, are there no other roadblocks in research right now? what do we need to do to open more roses

TeaAira: knowledge* that is

Ariella: Advanced Horticultures have 4 mat needs but 2 of those mats are completely fulfilled. So Khefre's Essence is the most difficult to get and Scorpion's Brood shrooms. For an easy to see page that gives a complete list of flower/genome related techs and specifically Advanced Horticulture see...

Dreasimy: ok tell us how to make Khefre's Essence :D

Pascalito: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Guilds/Garden_of_Eden/research

Dreasimy: People may not even know the gold that is had from their beetles :D

Ariella: That link is from the second page of the Garde of Eden guild.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Squish alot of beetles

Ariella: Adn, Meroe, Pyramid Lakes, Heaven's Gate, Saqqarah regions have all finished their Advanced Horticulture techs.

Pascalito: Basically squish 500 beetles to get 1 Khefre's Essence, means growing loads of cabbage:)

Ariella: The tech tree to get roses, to restate again, is Advanced Horticulture ---> Xenobotany ---> get lilies built ---> a rose!

Dreasimy: So if we get a khefre's essence we take it to any region OTHER than Adn, Meroe, Pyramid Lakes, Heaven's Gate, Saqqarah? Maybe there is a location closest to finishing where my Khefre's esscen would be most useful?

Pascalito: And build a few more terrariums if you want to speed it up.

Ariella: In Garden of Eden and the calls for Advanced Horticulture mats (specifically Khefre's Essence and Scorpion's Brood) will target a region to finish next. This region is currently Queen's Retreat. Advanced Horticulture is at UWorship. Or you can leave mats with myself, Pascalito, or other Eden members or at the Eden warehouse behind the guild hall a little north of the Meroe chariot stop.

Pascalito: SO for roses we have to get as many regions as possible to open Xeno btany for donations and hope for doable lily requirements...

Dreasimy: Ok cool so Queens Retreat with our Khefre's Essence and SB, then it opens Xenobotany :D

Dreasimy: Is that right?

Ariella: The other techs leading up to Mutagenics also need mats. See the same Garden of Eden page for a current list of those. Any player can help further the path of roses and better plants like flax and wheat by donating mats!

Dreasimy: do you know about how much is lacking to open it in QR?

Dreasimy: If people wanted to focus on one thing today :D What would they need :D Ariella: Only Khefre's Essence is needed in Queen's Retreat...just 15 more to put it on timer!

Dreasimy: wow!

Ariella: Scorpion's Brood is needed in Stillwater.

Dreasimy: See that's the kinda specifics I want :D

Dreasimy: k how many SB in SW?

Ariella: 606 Scorpion's Brood in Stillwater needed and then 50 Khefre's Essence in that region after Queen's Retreat is on timer.

Pascalito: And we hope those specifics change fast after this "talk show" ;-)

Dreasimy: as do I!

Dreasimy: Ok so to wrap up, what YOU can do to help is get 15 Khefre's Essence to the QR U Worship and 606 Scorpions Brood to the U Worship in Stillwater

Ariella: THE most important donation mat for Mutagenics is specific herb seeds. And you can always look in my Info for those herb seeds and the region they're needed in.

Dreasimy: Oh excellent <infos Ariella>

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: *wonders how many people just checked your info*

Dreasimy: so it looks like Pyramid Lake needs Miniature Lamae, Dwarf Wild Lettus and Mirabellis Fern :D

Ariella: Also, one last comment. To brew mutagens and discover more mutagens moss is sorely needed. So...please BLESS, BLESS, BLESS those aquaducts :)

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Miniature Lamae, Dwarf Wild Lettuce, and Mirabellis Fern Herb Seeds

Ariella: We hope that the guides will help players have even more fun with plants and flowers!

Ariella: Soon to come is Flower Building 101 with mutagens :)

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: I can't wait!!!!

Dreasimy: This has been great, and Ill be posting the log of this chat on the wiki :D

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: Write it soon please, if you can.

Dreasimy: You can find it under GOO Events when I get it done :D

Pascalito: GOOO? is that a gene set ? ...

Dreasimy: Why yes, yes it is!

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: In a solvent, that would show as Green Orange Orange Orange

Dreasimy: Ariella will end the chat with some specific crossbreeding excercises you can try at home!

Ariella: Crown Sea Lily has magenta petal gene sets on the left of the genome. So try Crown Left Splint with Blush Right Splint. Blush has magenta stamen gene sets on the right side of the genome. You might have to try several times but it could give a magenta petaled flower and stamen.

Ariella: Crown magenta petal sets are UROO and Blush stamen gene sets are IO and IOO and IOOO (V genes in the right side of Blush will lower the amount of fertilization required for lily to split)

Ariella: Energy lily is a pretty yellow but has no yellow stamen.

Dreasimy: Ok Ariella so they use a greenhouse to do that :D

Dreasimy: and they need a nut's essence to complete it? Then they get a brand new bulb they crossbred all by themselves?

Pascalito: yes, they will, with their name on it and a sequence number

Dreasimy: fancy!

Ariella: Let's try for a yellow stamened and petaled flower. Vampire has IY (yellow stamen) on the left of the genome, so put Vampire Left Splint/ Energy Right Splint. Remember you might have to try this cross breed several times because the splice point is random.

Ariella: Greenhouses are labelable this tale. Record your crossbreed tries! Crown/Blush and the number your child flower is given.

Pascalito: You could try Vampire Left Splint/Fracture Right Splint. Try to find out what this could result in or just experiment a few times and be surprised.

Pascalito: es, very important to keep track of the parents of your hybrids if you want to use the hybrids again!

Ariella: Whether your cross breeds turn out exactly as hoped or not, use the flower genome theory page and the main genomes and theories page to interpret the results :)

Ariella: One last piece of info. Strange things can pop up because there is a 50% chance a random gene will be duplicated or subtracted at the splice point that could add an unexpected color to your cross :)

Ariella: Let us know next time in here what you saw in your child flowers :)

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: *has just crossbred his first flower*

Dreasimy: Yay!

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: If anyone needs nut's essance, contact me(limited supply, better hurry!)

Pascalito: 15 minutes wait, then 1 hour to bloom can be soooo long then

Dreasimy: Thank you so much Ariella and Pascalito (we will call him the bonus!) :D

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: methinks i will get bombarded will requests

Dreasimy: Any final questions? Ill make sure to get this log on the wiki tomorrow morning at the latest :D

Pascalito: lol, ty. just the student

Dreasimy: Ok the Assistant :D

Ariella: Please do not hesitate to ask questions. Because there's 10 others wanting to know what you're puzzled on too ;)

Dreasimy: Ok I think this will wrap up flower talk :D

Dreasimy: Thank you again all who participated and especially our guest Ariella (and assistant Pascalito!) :D

Dreasimy: hehe

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: And I am the small store that sells nut's essance.

PeaceFlowerHappyBunny: First buyer gets 1 FREE Glass Solvent

Dreasimy: Ariella is there anything else... special you might want to tell us? ;)

Ariella: A little announcement :) ATITD has been the avenue to another real life engagement . Pascalito and I will be married on October 31st :)

Dreasimy: Congratulations Ariella and Pascalito!

Dreasimy: From one ATITD couple to another, we celebrate you in your True Test of Marriage :D hehehehe

Ariella: lol thanks Dreasimy :)