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Kingmaker January 2010

Kingmaker Rank 4 01/22/2010 In Progress

Log 1

Kingmaker Rank 4 01/22/2010 Log 1

Demi-Pharaoh Rank 4. Welcome Decozupop, Talos, ShuoftheFieryHeat, tanisboy4, Reyzer, Redd, DustiTwister. In the next 3 days you must nominate one to be Demi-Pharaoh. More information can be found at voting booths. 2 days 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Reyzer: Hi all Reyzer: Good to see some familiar faces ;) 2 days 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 20 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 19 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: hi all - glad to see some old friends and get the opportunity to make some new ones Reyzer: Hi Shu ShuoftheFieryHeat: hiyas Reyzer: you well? ShuoftheFieryHeat: doing good and you? Reyzer: pretty good :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: interesting chat on ENN - what do you think? Reyzer: It's good in the fact that Teppy seems to be *listening* Reyzer: It's hard to try and communicate via the chat though Reyzer: Seems to be multiple topics on the go atm hehe ShuoftheFieryHeat: nods - as the shard roll-out approches I see all kinds of upheavals and turmoil starting to happen - Teppy is at least aware of it more than before Reyzer: yea ShuoftheFieryHeat: it will be interesting to see how the shards affect DP rounds too - most interesting experiment Reyzer: It's really laying down a dividing line by the sounds of it 2 days 18 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

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Log 2

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Kingmaker Rank 4 01/22/2010 Log 2

Reyzer: I play quite a bit still Reyzer: Blondie and I seem to play at different times DustiTwister: =D Reyzer: I'm a candidate but am willing to support if there is someone worth supporting :) Reyzer: How about yourself? DustiTwister: I would prefer to be a candidate but will vote for majority if I believe its the right decision. Reyzer: :) DustiTwister: I would like the DP position because first of all, I do not strive towards tests. I am constantly working with other people, and I would like the ability to be known to be someone to go to in case of disputes. DustiTwister: Another true reason is it would give me a "reason" to continue staying in Egypt. I am finding it to get a little quiet. DustiTwister: Am at the point with people I know, They no longer need my help. I do a lot of donations to techs/research and make heaps of materials and such, but, my true calling is with people. DustiTwister: My qualifications: Business communications course, being a parent of 4, playing atitd for 5 years, and been in 3 tellings. Have been DP (probably as you know in T2), and took a break last telling due to greifing issues that were not handled. DustiTwister: How about you? Reyzer: I remember when you started in T2 hehe DustiTwister: =) DustiTwister: I remember you living in ND, near..umm the CS iirc Reyzer: yea, when the cs was near the beetle garden DustiTwister: yeah =) Reyzer: Blondie and I ran the public works DustiTwister: Blondie was first to help me out with the "rich" requirements of silk lol. Reyzer: lol DustiTwister: now I try to do that for others because of her. DustiTwister: However, as you know, recipies for thistles suck this telling. Reyzer: ugh tell me about it DustiTwister: =S DustiTwister: right now, I am salvaging and taking turns using the 2 silk for plantation test among the people in my "small" family guild. Reyzer: Game-wise I suppose I am a quieter sort DustiTwister: indeed. =) ya always were. DustiTwister: but sometimes more wisdom comes from the quieter folks. =-) Reyzer: I can debate with the best of them but don't like to waste words on waffle hehe Reyzer: prefer to get things done first DustiTwister: I can respect that. I am a talker. Entertainer, and can be direct. Guess I'm versatile. lol Reyzer: hehe 2 days 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. DustiTwister: This semester of college is Applied Human Relations course. I am looking forward to it. More of a psychology based course. DustiTwister: Am thinking of turning my 2nd major into Psychology. Reyzer: make sure you keep your feet on the ground :) DustiTwister: Oh yeah. But its fun. Reyzer: it must be easy to totally immerse yourslf in it DustiTwister: Took Psychology 2 semester. Loved that, and here I thought I'd bomb it, turned out to ace it Reyzer: nice DustiTwister: the course I'm more concerned about this semseter I would have to say, would be Accounting =S My math skills are a tad rusty lol Reyzer: eek accounting DustiTwister: Yes. Required for Computing Business Management major. lol DustiTwister: I am just beginning to "grow up" and find out what life is calling me to do. DustiTwister: It has encouraged 3 of my 4 kids to compete against mom and go to college lol Reyzer: lol DustiTwister: Its really neat to have the transition from "mom" to friend with my adult kids. Reyzer: well, I'm going to turn in. Cya tomorrow :) Reyzer: tc DustiTwister: You too =) ShuoftheFieryHeat: chat log captured at: ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs 2 days 11 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 10 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 9 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 8 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 7 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 6 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 5 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 4 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 3 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 2 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 1 hour left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: Shu is also interested in moving on but will go with the flow :) DustiTwister: =) DustiTwister: Hi ya Shu =) ShuoftheFieryHeat: of course the make up of this round is very interesting - there is no way to get a clear winner without cooperation and 3 votes wont do it ShuoftheFieryHeat: well 1 vote would do it but I think others will vote too <LOL> ShuoftheFieryHeat: hi there Dusti DustiTwister: Well, begin with why you want the dp? ShuoftheFieryHeat: as t4 has progressed I've become more interested in what causes difficulties in the game: a) mechanics = Teppy b) inter-gameplay = player base ShuoftheFieryHeat: only player based items are within the range of DP and Im interested in the resolution process and I think Shu could help on that DustiTwister: So, am I understanding you to think you could change the "lack of" interaction in DP's making changes in the system in which it works? ShuoftheFieryHeat: I speak English and some French and Spanish and have lived in Mexico and France so I have some experience with other views than the one in USA ShuoftheFieryHeat: no not lack of intereact with DPs but helping DPs understand what might be cultural based issues DustiTwister: cultural based issues have been around here since T1. Most DP's are fully aware. Do you not think so? ShuoftheFieryHeat: I think many are and I think that is good basis for a DP - dont you? DustiTwister: Indeed. But, just because someone speaks different languages or has lived in specific regions of the world, does not mean, one who has not can not have the same knowledge. For instance... DustiTwister: I have a spanish speaking player in my personal guild. We communicate perfectly fine between one another. DustiTwister: and I understand where she is coming from. DustiTwister: I also ran into an issue with a french player. Which I then had to speak french. I use translator, and make sure to say so prior to the conversation DustiTwister: Mind you the French player was intoxicated and was trying to give me everything she owned. ShuoftheFieryHeat: :) DustiTwister: That was very interesting to say the least ROFL ShuoftheFieryHeat: I think that many people can communicate just fine but it does require an open mind about what is being said ShuoftheFieryHeat: idioms do not translate - try The bobby is armed with a stiff upper lip and a wooden trunceon > put that in any translator and see what you get ShuoftheFieryHeat: in english (usa) we use loads of idioms - baseball football and others may not have a clue what we are saying and may take offense DustiTwister: I am fully aware of that, but most people, who are of a different language feel somewhat "alone" and are more than forgiving of translation issues. DustiTwister: in fact, one said to me that if it were not for me, they would have not felt so "welcome" to ATITD because I went out of my way to communicate ShuoftheFieryHeat: well - thats nice if we want to force them to communicate with us on our terms but I would like to understand them on their terms DustiTwister: That is the purpose to explain the uses of translators "prior' to conversations. DustiTwister: Mind you the French player was intoxicated and was trying to give me everything she owned. ShuoftheFieryHeat: :) DustiTwister: That was very interesting to say the least ROFL ShuoftheFieryHeat: I think that many people can communicate just fine but it does require an open mind about what is being said ShuoftheFieryHeat: idioms do not translate - try The bobby is armed with a stiff upper lip and a wooden trunceon > put that in any translator and see what you get ShuoftheFieryHeat: in english (usa) we use loads of idioms - baseball football and others may not have a clue what we are saying and may take offense DustiTwister: I am fully aware of that, but most people, who are of a different language feel somewhat "alone" and are more than forgiving of translation issues. DustiTwister: in fact, one said to me that if it were not for me, they would have not felt so "welcome" to ATITD because I went out of my way to communicate ShuoftheFieryHeat: well - thats nice if we want to force them to communicate with us on our terms but I would like to understand them on their terms DustiTwister: That is the purpose to explain the uses of translators "prior' to conversations. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I think the point is to communicate but then the problems arise in resolution DustiTwister: not as often as you imagine. I have not experienced an offended player when it is outright said, there may be translation issues, and to ask what is meant by whatever word may be wrongly translated. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I dont think there are any of us here who have not had some problems with resolution DustiTwister: The job is still effectivly able to be handled even with translators DustiTwister: I also enlist the help of french/English speaking players when unable to communicate fast enough. DustiTwister: particularly TME DustiTwister: sometimes Esther has helped as well. ShuoftheFieryHeat: hmmm well even names can be offensive and that may not be a translation problem - one player from Spain uses a historical name which was offensive to a player from Turkey because that historical person (a hero in spain) is a bad guy in Turkey - you wont get that from a translator DustiTwister: There is nothing we can do about names of players. And if that be the reason they are fighting, then, that goes back to the "rules of the game". ShuoftheFieryHeat: you can only get that from interaction and understanding the historical context DustiTwister: Correct. DustiTwister: its all more here about, Personal Ethics and Standards. ShuoftheFieryHeat: are we have a discussion on the virtues of translators or comminicating with other cultures? DustiTwister: Both actually. ShuoftheFieryHeat: Shu is talking about other cultures not translators DustiTwister: Other cultures depend on communication, different languages present different issues, majority of that issue is communication. Where as you may be able to speak and communicate without tranlators and help, I am stating, I am perfectly capable of doing the same thing, using a translator and have never run into a non-patient person who can not understand English while using the translator which has interpeted words in an unintentinal way. DustiTwister: that is what I am saying. I am capable of the job, not just because I can handle disputes, but I can effectivly communicate just as well as someone who may speak the language. ShuoftheFieryHeat: so.... you dont think its a benefit to know other cultures even if you do not know their language? Cultures are not the same a language. DustiTwister: Cultures = ways of life, or experiences that particularly pertain to their environment or past environment. I understand that. I am not uneducated about most. DustiTwister: when in a dispute, most do not partain to "Culture" it partains to "disagreements btwn two players" ShuoftheFieryHeat: but is it of benefit?? DustiTwister: We have had only one instance of a culture dispute. DustiTwister: and iirc most all of Egypt was on the same side of the line DustiTwister: I believe it is important, yet, it is not the majority of a necessary need for DP's DustiTwister: I believe what is an important quality of a DP is to be able to listen to everything before assuming a solution. Being patient to hear every detail. ShuoftheFieryHeat: so how would you propose that a DP provide a positive influence even in the face of opposition? what would be your program? DustiTwister: not just listening to details, but observing facts and the base of the issue at hand DustiTwister: reading between the lines "so to speak" DustiTwister: What do you mean exactly? ShuoftheFieryHeat: well if you have a situation where you need to listen to two or more players and you want to provide a positive rolemodel of DP interaction but there are others that are not in agreement with you? what kind of things would you do? especially if the others were also DPs? DustiTwister: If you are asking me if two hot headed individuals are so angry, they call a DP for resolution, how to approach them, then I would say, first important task at hand is to diffuse the heat, so they can calmly discuss the matter with you. DustiTwister: There is always some solution, even if it is meeting the player half way. DustiTwister: another way I say that is, to agree to disagree. ShuoftheFieryHeat: how would you work with other DPs that may not agree with your suggestions? DustiTwister: I am not obstanent enough to ask myself, could I be using my "pride" to "think" my answer "is the ultimate" in a situation. I have an open mind to suggestions. However, if majority of DP's agree with one another, then apparently I would be wrong to ignore the advice. DustiTwister: I have no problems thinking for myself either. DustiTwister: I do not perform for "others" to like me, I am myself. Like me or ya don't. ShuoftheFieryHeat: lol I dont think anyone would think you are not your own person Dusti <G> DustiTwister: I am inclined to think there are very very minimal people who I come across who have issues with me. DustiTwister: I can name 1 for sure. That is about all. Yet, we can still be next to one another and not have problems. DustiTwister: it is one of those, "Agree to disagree" situations. DustiTwister: We still respect each other. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I think Teppy has made this a very interesting test of RL in a virtual environment. Here we get to say and do things experiemnt with options in a non-dangerous way. DustiTwister: Agreed. DustiTwister: Its a portal to introduce us to many different PoV's ShuoftheFieryHeat: forexample: Talos and Decoz are connected to Bluegrass (DP) and tanisboy4 is a mule of someone (dunno who) - so there is a possibility (not saying reality) that decoz and talos could pass on one of themselves ShuoftheFieryHeat: now - that to me is interesting - because it experiments with what Shu thinks is "right and proper" but that may not be what they others feel or think < that is a challenge for Shu DustiTwister: that type of behavior has been around in ATITD since the start tho. ShuoftheFieryHeat: so... experiment: IF you were a DP and another DP was in the same place and you both disagreed about what is "right and proper" how does that influence the rest of the game and players? Is there anything a DP can do or say? DustiTwister: its not about whats "right and proper" in our own world, but in the minds of each individual. DustiTwister: its an "ethics" issue. 1 day 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. DustiTwister: I am never "too proud" to stand down if necessary to prevent a major dispute if I know that even if I do not agree, it doesn't create chaos to do so. ShuoftheFieryHeat: ethics are as variable as people in the world - that is the challenge. There are no rules to Egypt and player based rules are few. So no rules no foul. DustiTwister: There is a "stigma" of Ethics found in Egypt. DustiTwister: The rules may not be "written" but it is basically "understood" ShuoftheFieryHeat: ah... the "understood" ones - please list them <G> ShuoftheFieryHeat: certainly shu has never seen a list on the wiki - except the one Shu put up. DustiTwister: one for example would be the land issues: Most ATITD players who have been around, understand there is a need to have a big Plot set aside for future growth. DustiTwister: there is no "rule" that says, if you put a cp there, it becomes "yours" DustiTwister: its just "understood" DustiTwister: and I'd give it a good 80% of Egyptians are on that "understanding" DustiTwister: its not a "rule" yet its something thats gone by. ShuoftheFieryHeat: well that one gets challenged all the time - new players do not know and old players may not care - if your near a clay bed - and ovens gonna show up ShuoftheFieryHeat: (teppy maybe fixing that though - PLEASE fix it!!) DustiTwister giggles DustiTwister: It would truely amaze me if he did ShuoftheFieryHeat: nods 99x DustiTwister: I need to afk to begin our dinner here irl, is there anything further you would like me to answer? DustiTwister: I would love to ask more questions for you, but I need to get that started, not sure how long you will be here for. ShuoftheFieryHeat: its been a very interesting chat Dusti - you are a very knowledgeable person! But Shu already knew that and I've been happy to have the opportunity to chat you indepth DustiTwister: Aww, Thank you =D ShuoftheFieryHeat: Shu will be here thru the festival today DustiTwister: oh good, Me too. Hence why dinner needs to be cooked "before" festi's lol ShuoftheFieryHeat: manga manga then DustiTwister: or else hemptwister commin home to cookin dinner for us lol DustiTwister: (not particularly good when hes a chef all day to begin with) DustiTwister: afk for about 20-30 min ShuoftheFieryHeat: chat log updated - great chat Dusti! ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs DustiTwister: Am back already. Hemptwister had the peppers already cut and I only had to do the onions =) DustiTwister: Making Sweet Sausage w/peppers, onions, tomatos over vegetable Rotini =) ShuoftheFieryHeat: yummm DustiTwister is starving as it is lol Reyzer: Evening all ShuoftheFieryHeat: hiyas 1 day 20 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Reyzer: Hi Shu, hows things? DustiTwister: hi reyzer, at festi's arn't you? Reyzer: Hi Dusti, yep gettin ready DustiTwister: =D 1 day 19 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. tanisboy4: hello all tanisboy4: anyone want to make me king Reyzer: hehe Reyzer: I'm sure we all would like to be king tanisboy4: oh but poor boy becoming king has good ring to it tanisboy4: dont u think Reyzer: sure tanisboy4: well reyzer so your so nice chating with me i will vote for u tanisboy4 voted for Reyzer as Demi-Pharaoh. Reyzer: Thanks for the vote :) but are you sure that you don't want to wait and see what the other candidates have to say? DustiTwister: uhh, what did I miss? DustiTwister: was participating in the event =( 1 day 18 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Reyzer: You didn't miss much Reyzer: tanisboy wasn't on for very long DustiTwister: yeah, i noticed. Didn't get to talk myself. Was involved in the event. DustiTwister: ah well.. 1 day 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 15 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 14 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 13 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 11 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 10 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 9 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 8 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Decozupop voted for Reyzer as Demi-Pharaoh. Decozupop changed his vote for Demi-Pharaoh from Reyzer to DustiTwister. 1 day 7 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 6 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 5 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 4 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 3 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 2 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 1 hour left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: wow that's interesting! 1 day left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Decozupop: why is that interesting? ShuoftheFieryHeat: the instant change in vote Decozupop: I clicked the wrong name thats all ShuoftheFieryHeat: ahhh :) Decozupop: have you never clicked in the wrong place before? ShuoftheFieryHeat: yes of course - but sometimes I say "wrong click" if I want folks to know what was going on Decozupop: thought thats was obivious

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Log 3

Some of the log had scrolled off before the capture.

Kingmaker Rank 4 01/22/2010 Log 3

DustiTwister: =D Gotta question for you? Reyzer: sure DustiTwister: Why do you want to be DP, and what does being DP mean to you? If I am to make a decision, I have not heard what you believe. Reyzer: I means more to me now than it has before Reyzer: I've always been involved in DP, ever since T2 but always in the background, helping others out Reyzer: I got a bit disillusioned with it DustiTwister: what do you mean dillisusioned by it? Reyzer: It started being the same old repetitive blah blah Reyzer: The speeches and debated were all full of the same soundbites Reyzer: debates* DustiTwister: so what makes you want it? Reyzer: To an extent they still are and will always be but I've always had soft spot for being a bit different Reyzer: It would be the culmination of a lot of time and effort put in Reyzer: As i've said before, I'm not one for small talk hehe Reyzer: I'm not scared of making decisions DustiTwister: so what drives you to want to "be" the DP that makes it so much more important this time than anytime in the past? I still do not understand your position. Reyzer: So I can ban anyone who crumbles my cages Reyzer: ;P DustiTwister: =P Reyzer: It's a DP round and no less important than any others, past or present DustiTwister: cute answer =S am still unsure. Cuz I would love to have the position myself. =S but I will not deadlock Reyzer: Deadlock is not an option DustiTwister: well I won't vote for myself unless its preventing one....I am taking into consideration how you want it as well. DustiTwister: so what it boils down to is, Who Shu votes for is who I vote for Reyzer: Perfectly acceptable to vote for yourself to break a deadlock DustiTwister: indeed. Reyzer: But yes, Shu and Talos still need to vote DustiTwister: voting for myself has only been done for that reason Only, in any DP round ...which has happend maybe twice in 3 tellings. Reyzer: Gah Sunday passes are getting harder to read hehe Reyzer: So, do you think DP is different now that is different from previous tales? Reyzer: ugh that doesn't make much sense Reyzer: Do you think it's different now that it's not a test DustiTwister: I think there are more people who persue it that are sincere about it. The voting in terms of Egypt still seems to be for the "popularity" and not the answers or the reputation. Reyzer: yep, and lack of decent competition DustiTwister: Realistically, That is how I see it. Reyzer: I'm off for tonight, cya later DustiTwister: okay. See ya soon. 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 15 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 14 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 13 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 11 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 10 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 9 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 8 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 7 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 6 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 5 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 4 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 3 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 hour left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Reyzer: Sorry guys and gals but to avoid a deadlock I'm going to vote for myself Reyzer voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh. ShuoftheFieryHeat voted for Reyzer as Demi-Pharaoh. Voting was as follows: ShuoftheFieryHeat voted for Reyzer. tanisboy4 voted for Reyzer. Decozupop voted for DustiTwister. Reyzer voted for Reyzer. Reyzer received 3 votes. Reyzer is elevated to the next election. ShuoftheFieryHeat: good round Gratz to All!

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