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Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 In Progress

Log 1

Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 1

Demi-Pharaoh Rank 2. Welcome Dreasimy, ShuoftheFieryHeat, Orrin, Keko. In the next 3 days you must nominate one to be Demi-Pharaoh. More information can be found at voting booths. Keko: hi all Orrin: Heya :) Orrin: Hmmm.... so they put you through Dreasimy ;) Orrin: It'll be a 2 person runoff this time then 2 days 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 20 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 19 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 18 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: hi all Orrin: Heyas Shu :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: so is this the final round? or is there another after this? Orrin: nah Orrin: 4 people in the round Orrin: I should be very surprised if there's more then 2 people in the final election Orrin: I can't think that there'd be more than 8 penultimate groups ShuoftheFieryHeat: last election there were 5 people in the final Orrin: yeh, 10 groups ShuoftheFieryHeat: k Orrin: Nchanter explained it yesterday Orrin: >7 people through, there's a runoff ShuoftheFieryHeat: well for the record - I would like to be considered as the one to go forward Orrin: so in this case, it seems like 8 people got through Orrin: You and everyone else here both I think :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: just throwing my hat in ring <G> Orrin: hmph... throwing hats is a waste of hats ;) Orrin: I'll add some explosives instead... useless things Orrin: Anyway, to lay my credidentials on the table: GMT English speaking, bits of spanish, good chunk of french (Enough to point them to Ephemere anyway!) ShuoftheFieryHeat: Greenich Mean Time English? <didnt know they had a special version there> <g> Orrin: Get on well with existing DPs, very active player, talk to a lot of people, mod of Funtasy, Founder of PRET, 1/2 of lead research donator in Meroe, held talks on cooking and thistles, written a very nearly complete listing of all food stats Orrin: yeh, GMT english is refined, none of that american drivel :P Orrin: *scuse the short teabreak* Orrin: Good sense of humour, very up to date on the whisperings going on, also have the support of elders in both meroe's main guilds Orrin: Mediation-wise I'm mature enough not to get drawn in, and I'm very much a 'play by the rules' person. If someone shares a cicada cage location, that is playing by the rules and not a matter for a DP to start shaking a banstick. Orrin: If a player wishes to dispute an action of mine with the DPs, then will gladly allow the other DPs to judge it, as it would not be fair for myself to particiapte in a DP role Orrin: that's enough Wall of Text for now, feel free to make it scroll Orrin: If you have questions and I'm not on, drop me a chat and I'll answer when I can 2 days 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 15 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Orrin: He's a question for you all. Someone comes to you saying Person X has argued with Person Y, and intends to attack them with explosives. To back up their claim, they submit a screenshot of the conversation, with both of them in the picture. What would you do? ShuoftheFieryHeat: for various scenarios check this page: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider Orrin: ... Orrin: link on a seperate line for it to work btw ;) ShuoftheFieryHeat: it has loads of areas to consider -> retaliation topic ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider Orrin: pft ShuoftheFieryHeat: also I will try to capture the chat logs and post them on this page ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Kingmaker_Rank_2_11.2F30.2F2009_In_Progress Orrin: quick scan, looks like junk to me I'm afraid... ShuoftheFieryHeat: what do you mean junk? Orrin: way too alternatively in depth/shallow ShuoftheFieryHeat: they are topics <G> not answers Orrin: take for example 'does gaming exist'? Orrin: That's not a question anyone running seriously for DP is going to ask Orrin: Gaming *does* exist, there's no doubt about it at all! ShuoftheFieryHeat: ok I will ask it - DOES game Exist? DO you DO it? (and yes Ive been asked) Orrin: but Gaming is within the limits of the game that Teppy set out. Make no mistake, it's designed to allow it Orrin: I dont mean like that Shu, if a serious DP candidate had to *think* whether 'gaming' exists, they really shouldnt be running for DP Orrin: The game itself rewards both honesty and dishonesty. The trick with dishonesty is not to get caught at it. ShuoftheFieryHeat: well some folks do not think gaming exists - all avatars are created equal - if you have 100 mule account each is as good as any other - so playing 100 mules is aok Orrin: ^^ Orrin: I'm pretty sure those people are aware they're gaming Orrin: they just dont care that they are Orrin: very large difference Orrin: Similar to macros Orrin: That's really quite a silly question, it is common, publically stated knowledge that macros are not cheating ShuoftheFieryHeat: YOU may think its silly but others do not :)) if you dont have the macro or ability to run one you get a different view Orrin: I know all about that Orrin: I run OSX, so I never had a decent mining macro when I needed one. Orrin: Did I whine? No. I learnt to make alloys and traded for all the metal I ever needed. Orrin: You cannot drag down the majority for the sake of the minority ShuoftheFieryHeat: check the last items in the list then :) Orrin: To simply say 'macros are cheating cos I can't use one' is the old fable of the dog in the manger. 'If I can't use it, no-one else can'. ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** I can tell this is gonna be a great great round! ** Orrin: :D Orrin: I'm very vocal, as I'm sure you're aware Orrin: and I have a good sense of ethics Orrin: I can see *why* people might consider it cheating... but that's really just envy in this case Orrin: Trade exists for a reason, as do guilds. Co-operation goes a very long way Orrin: Also,the person that wrote that unfortunately never looked into the more devious ways of causing drama Orrin: would you trust a screenshot? ShuoftheFieryHeat: of what? Orrin: As evidence Orrin: of anything ShuoftheFieryHeat: given that anything digital can be manipulated - if I thought it was not altered I would Orrin: hah Orrin: I could easily fake a conversation debating whether to blow up your CP to get you out of DP Orrin: and you'd never know it was faked ShuoftheFieryHeat: yes I think you could - but you wouldnt have to fake it :) Orrin: trust me, I've just faked a convo, wanted to see how easy it was.. it's really easy Orrin: lol Orrin: I would, if I didnt want to put the blame on me Orrin: I could make it appear that other people were discussing it Orrin: But the moral is 'how much can you actually accept as evidence?' Orrin: The answer is seemingly less and less

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Log 2

Some of the chat had scrolled off the screen since my last login...

Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 2

Orrin: Well, pre-automines anyhow Orrin: I've no idea what the devs were on when they made that up Keko: i think game is need to more time for everything Orrin: hmmmm Orrin: depends Orrin: if people worked together more, it wouldnt Keko: gather limestone, mining , flax ext Orrin: Mining got sorted with the advent of automines Keko: are they working together ? Orrin: limestone... I'm intrigued as to the 'other' uses of explosives Orrin: Not right now ;) Orrin: lots of splintered 1/2 man bands Orrin: I'm just as bad... Orrin: I have enough stuff for a large-sized guild... Orrin: and there's just myself and Ary suing it Orrin: using* Keko: same me too Keko: i built guild for turkish players only for help and my mind is if u make anything we can use it who needs to it he can get Orrin: Yeh, we expanded a ton to cope with the increased output weneeded for tech Orrin: we needed* Keko: but more of them working alone and boring after 1 or 2 mounth Keko: month* Orrin: yup, server population is low Keko: yes very very low Orrin: ~300 actives Keko: i saw in ulead 1035 actives Orrin: nah Orrin: that figure is utterly distorted Orrin: IDK how it works, but it's totally distorted Keko: yes Orrin: It also counts mules and pre-pay Orrin: A good ballpark figure is >init of body Orrin: there's 300 of them, or thereabouts Orrin: I know that the last ballot had a around 270 votes cast Keko: definetely Orrin: so the figure of 300 can't be that bad Orrin: but it's 1/3 the 'official' figure... Keko: we did n t get 100 votes for melon wine Orrin: it's got a few more days yet Keko: how ever it must be very easy in 1 or 2 days Orrin: what's the figure now? Keko: i dont know Keko: but approximate 100 Keko: was 86 before 2 days ago Orrin: well if 1/3 people have voted, hes's gotta do something Keko: i m afraid it is hard 2 days 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 11 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 10 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I got this msg from Orrin - he is having prblems loging in >>> Aryballa: Hi Shu:) Aryballa: This is Aryballa, Orrins spouse Aryballa: He asked me to explain to you and the other DP candidates that he can't log on atm Aryballa: I screwed up badly somehow and got him kicked off...trying to get it fixed but we don't now how long it will take :( ShuoftheFieryHeat: ok - I will put a post in the DP chat for him Aryballa: tyvm:) <<< ShuoftheFieryHeat: I missed most of the chat with keko - so I hope he gets to repost he's positions ShuoftheFieryHeat: I've tried to capture some of the chats ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Log_1 ShuoftheFieryHeat: I would also like to hear from Dreasimy too ShuoftheFieryHeat: and of course Shu is got his foot wedged in the door for moving on too :) 2 days 9 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Dreasimy: HI folks Dreasimy: So basically my vote goes to who I think would make the best, most responsible DP. to me that is someone who able to approach situations where people are asking for bans in a non-emotional way, yet still empathetic. Someone who is also responsible in how they interact with the rest of the populace and won't abuse their immunity from bans. Someone who is unlikely to disappear once they become DP. Someone who can coherently communicate their views about DP and why they should be DP :) Dreasimy: I too guess I have missed a lot of chat so Id appreciate it greatly to get to hear what you all had to say :D Dreasimy: To answer your question (which I was able to see from Shu's wiki page, thank you Shu) no I would never trust a screenshot of anything Dreasimy: Sorry insert "Orrin's Question" :) Still catching up on reading :D Dreasimy: of course Id be happy to have a screenshot to have something specific to inquire about whether it was true or not of the alleged offender :D Dreasimy: I guess I missed anything keko might have said about why keko wants to be DP 2 days 8 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 7 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 6 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I would like folks to discuss some of the cultural problems that arise in the game and how they think things could be resolved. I know its been beaten to death but still the swaticka building and Kastou were a prime example of conflicting views. Dreasimy: That swastika building gets a lot of press because it happened during a DP final round and one of the final candidates left the game over it. It was not the first Swastika compound this telling, and when I told the builder that his sails lost some wind ShuoftheFieryHeat: I know that Orrin has some pretty strong views on things (for example) so how would you approach someone who is having a problem - but you (personally) dont see it as a problem (perhaps of cultural background) - how can you overcome your own limitations ShuoftheFieryHeat: (you == all candidates) Dreasimy: I believe people have the right to express themselves however they want. Including making Swastika compounds. However they also need to accept the consequences. Which when one of the Nigerian Businessmen built one early in the tale I called every one of their guildmembers on it when they wanted to trade with me. Dreasimy: I would never ban someone for it by the way. Dreasimy: however I would not trade with them or help them with tests ShuoftheFieryHeat: so would anything change if they were Tibetan? what if they were and you didnt know? Dreasimy: if it was something I felt done in malice only to disrupt our 'society' then yes I would take personal measures, however I would not ban anyone for being a 'dick' :) I think our society is stronger with diversity. There are some people who are lacking social niceties who are geniouses in other ways that help us all. I know I can protect those who maybe the masses hate but are doing nothing worth being kicked to the curb. Dreasimy: Oh I was speaking specifically to the guy in Nigerian Businessmen and the guy in SA who both did it to provoke a negative response Dreasimy: I know that from speaking to them personally ShuoftheFieryHeat: nods Dreasimy: however if a 3rd person built one and honestly built it to acknowledge a different aspect of the symbol then I would councel them how to handle the negative responses they were getting and also educate those most offended about what I thought they were trying to express ShuoftheFieryHeat: thank you - a well thought out answer ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** I have to log - but I will be looking forward to other comments from everyone Dreasimy: Thanks Shu :D ShuoftheFieryHeat: if we run out topics - please check this wiki page ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider ShuoftheFieryHeat: also I will try to keep the logs going on my page ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Log_1 2 days 5 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Dreasimy: Also I should mention that if one of those offended were speaking a different language than I (English) then I do also have people who can translate for me Dreasimy: I love that this game has players from all over the world, I do my best to embrace that in every aspect including events I run 2 days 4 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 3 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Keko: why i m wanting to be DP... i explain Keko: I've been playing Atitd since mid T3 and have always enjoyed the game and friends that I have made here. I'm from Istanbul.I'm 42 years and current unemployed due to to medical reasons so I have lots of time to play. I'm on most days and spend way to much time in game. Keko: In Game I spend most of my time in Stillwater working on helping my guild mates and working to passing tests. Keko: i enjoy to social aspects of the games and being a DP would hopefully allow me to get to know more players and not just to help solve problems... a DP should be a role model of sorts and i think the way i play the game is good way... Keko: to try to pass tests, to help other players when i can, to try to keepthings here on the light tone... more fun than drama i also think i would simply like to see if i have what it takes to get elected ... Keko: at a certain point the player has the address many question that are debated endlessly and how i handle those questions will show me whether i have the character to be accepted and trusted as a DP... and finally i think because i m thrustworthy and a level headed player... Keko: i could try to make more players not to be so cynical about DP role ... many players think that DP 's are just players who crove power ands need their ego's boosted...perhaps i could try to changed that perception 2 days 2 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 1 hour left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Orrin is back! Orrin: the bug still exists... Orrin: but it doesn't crash under windows Orrin: quick read... Orrin: and to be blunt Dreasimy, if you're not gonna use the bans, why should you be a DP? Orrin: The *only* difference between a normal player and a DP *IS* the bans Orrin: I'm utterly confident you could do an excellent mediation job as an ordinary player Orrin: and if DP's are role models, that could explain why this game is so damn quiet 2 days left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Orrin: That's the number 1 problem with this game right now, lack of people and lack of enthusiasm Orrin: anyhow, I've got my account back and should have cleared the problem Orrin: time to do some work Orrin: ciao :) 1 day 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 20 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 19 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 18 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: After reviewing all the comments so far and also past elections at this time I am going to vote for myself. ShuoftheFieryHeat voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I am totally committed to moving on to the next round and I hope all of you will support me in that endeavor. ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** have to log for now - hope to BBL Orrin: Well, I am likewise committed Keko: is it vote time:) Keko voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh. Orrin: I see you and raise you one Orrin voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh. Orrin: This is going nowhere :D Keko: it s better:) Orrin: Agreed 1 day 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 15 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Dreasimy: rofl Dreasimy: males. Dreasimy: Orrin, I never said anything about never banning so please do not put words in my mouth for the others :) Dreasimy: In general, I think it's better to have diversity in this game, even people who make swastika compounds and are assholes :D Dreasimy: There are some people who really want to act like police officers and decide who is 'good' and who is 'bad' I tend to not view people as good and bad but as people with differing needs Dreasimy: when you look at them that way and can be empathetic to both sides you can more easily reach a common ground Dreasimy: However, I have always stated that I would ban happily in the right situation, I'll share my thoughts on that and Id love to hear from you on the same. Some people want to be banned, they will do anything to get 'killed by DP' sadly even tho I don't want to waste a ban on something like that, the situation usually requires it. Also there are a few other types of situations I can imagine, hypotheticals, that I would consider it seriously and those are where imminent mass damage to things not easily replaced was surely to occur... Dreasimy: and also if there was some very severe harassment too horrible to describe was occuring without the offender being willing to talk or negotiate or stop and I witnessed it myself Dreasimy: And, I would really appreciate your vote to move forward :) Orrin: must have misread that, apologies Orrin: thougt I read you saying that you intended never to use the bans Orrin: and it seems to me that this group consists of 4 people who all think they're the best for the job Dreasimy: ya I have never ever said in 4 tales that I would never ban, however I do think banning shouldn't be the first option usually :D And regarding who goes forward, I have an open mind, I really want someone that I would vote for in the final, that could be me or someone else. Dreasimy: I wish I thought the rest of you were also open minded :D Orrin: Hehe Orrin: Oh, I have my preferences Orrin: It just remains to decide a majority Orrin: Speaking for myself, I decided to vote that way as a deadlock. Dreasimy: I'll be here and afk on and off, working and gonna start dinner :D Orrin: Just eaten mine... and it's almost 11pm >< 1 day 14 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 13 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Keko: biz bu testle cok ugrasicaz söyliyim Keko: sry wrong tab ShuoftheFieryHeat: hi all - I see some action has been happening ShuoftheFieryHeat: so far the score is Orrin 1 Keko 1 Shu 1 undecided 1 Keko: and noone goes to oscar :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: lots of time left for questions / answers ShuoftheFieryHeat: we have a saying - it's not over until its over :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: Shu is staying firmly wedged into the door for the next round - who will help push him though? 2 more votes is a lock - who can get them or who will give them? Keko: looks like a game over for us :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: there are only 4 of us in this round - cooperation is a must - if we all vote for ourselves then like Keko says - no one goes to the oscars and whoever is in the Other Round has a lock on DP ShuoftheFieryHeat: (orrin indicated there are only 2 groups - so the other guy gets DP as a walk-away) Keko: possible :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: well I wouldnt say game over - its now a matter of cooperation - can others put aside their own ambitions to push Shu though? Keko: or maybe somebody will push me :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: The question of the day of course is: Can anyone else muster 3 votes? Can orrin get keko and dreasimy ? Can keko get orrin and dreasimy? ShuoftheFieryHeat: and of course: Can Shu get (orrin keko) (orrin dreasimy) ? Keko: 2 votes enough for pass ShuoftheFieryHeat: no 2 votes is a deadlock - you need 3 for a pass ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** 3 total to guarantee the round Keko: changes everything in here

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Log 3

Some of the chat had scrolled off the screen since my last login...

Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 3

Dreasimy: but fine Orrin: Yeh Orrin: Zatarg asks in HHOF guild for people to help Dreasimy: getting back to where we derailed Orrin: There's nothing special bout it Orrin: hang on, let me just clear this up Dreasimy: you have throughout made sure we all know that you are involved with the devs Dreasimy: and when you were involved with the EVENTS and then dissing those of us trying to do your event Dreasimy: I felt hurt Orrin: Ehmmmm Orrin: That is catagorically not true Dreasimy: and i wished if you were acting in that capacity you would be more professional Orrin: PRET ran Phile and the consecutive event Orrin: there was very very little 'official' involvement, and I did not organise any of that Orrin: you can have me on record saying that Orrin: brb sec Dreasimy: was there an event you did before phile? Dreasimy: maybe I amjust thinking of the wrong event Dreasimy: since you talk to zatarg ask if we can have a feature that lets us search for a chat tab, i.e. I think you and I have a chat tab already but I dont see it as I have like 120 :D 1 day 4 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Orrin: before Phile? No, Phile was the first event I ever ran Orrin: I would also like to refute the idea that I continually mentioned Devs during this round Orrin: I know I mentioned them one regarding explosives, but that was in the context of a simple dev-call Orrin: cos explosives really do suck Dreasimy: no not during this round, I meant in general Dreasimy: you do on E! and Funtasy and the Hive Dreasimy: it's like shouldering around your influence Dreasimy: letting us all know you are more in the know :D Dreasimy: this is not just me :D Orrin: Hive is an informal FFA chat... Dreasimy: I KNOW Dreasimy: hehehe Dreasimy: dont be defensive Dreasimy: I guess Ill take this privately again Orrin: ^^ Orrin: And yes, I do make comments regarding what I know in E! and Funtasy, since I'd consider them helpful. If I know that Teppy is already aware of a bug, I'll say, so that they are aware of it Orrin: That doesn't mean Teppy talks to me, it's usually through some other channel Orrin: Personal insults in public please! Dreasimy: eh? Orrin: Dreasimy went off to sleep, but there's a few things I'd like to point out Orrin: When I say 'don't worry bout submitting a dev call on it, Teppy is aware of the problem' or such, that's not means as 'ooh look at me I can say the name of a DEV!' Orrin: It's exactly what it says. There's no point getting wound up bout it, Teppy knows it's a problem Orrin: That's all it is. People complain about devs being detached from what's happening, and they really are, so why then hit back at someone trying simply to get some communication going? 1 day 3 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 2 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 1 hour left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

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