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Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 In Progress

Log 1

Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 1

Demi-Pharaoh Rank 2. Welcome Dreasimy, ShuoftheFieryHeat, Orrin, Keko. In the next 3 days you must nominate one to be Demi-Pharaoh. More information can be found at voting booths. Keko: hi all Orrin: Heya :) Orrin: Hmmm.... so they put you through Dreasimy ;) Orrin: It'll be a 2 person runoff this time then 2 days 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 20 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 19 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 18 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: hi all Orrin: Heyas Shu :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: so is this the final round? or is there another after this? Orrin: nah Orrin: 4 people in the round Orrin: I should be very surprised if there's more then 2 people in the final election Orrin: I can't think that there'd be more than 8 penultimate groups ShuoftheFieryHeat: last election there were 5 people in the final Orrin: yeh, 10 groups ShuoftheFieryHeat: k Orrin: Nchanter explained it yesterday Orrin: >7 people through, there's a runoff ShuoftheFieryHeat: well for the record - I would like to be considered as the one to go forward Orrin: so in this case, it seems like 8 people got through Orrin: You and everyone else here both I think :) ShuoftheFieryHeat: just throwing my hat in ring <G> Orrin: hmph... throwing hats is a waste of hats ;) Orrin: I'll add some explosives instead... useless things Orrin: Anyway, to lay my credidentials on the table: GMT English speaking, bits of spanish, good chunk of french (Enough to point them to Ephemere anyway!) ShuoftheFieryHeat: Greenich Mean Time English? <didnt know they had a special version there> <g> Orrin: Get on well with existing DPs, very active player, talk to a lot of people, mod of Funtasy, Founder of PRET, 1/2 of lead research donator in Meroe, held talks on cooking and thistles, written a very nearly complete listing of all food stats Orrin: yeh, GMT english is refined, none of that american drivel :P Orrin: *scuse the short teabreak* Orrin: Good sense of humour, very up to date on the whisperings going on, also have the support of elders in both meroe's main guilds Orrin: Mediation-wise I'm mature enough not to get drawn in, and I'm very much a 'play by the rules' person. If someone shares a cicada cage location, that is playing by the rules and not a matter for a DP to start shaking a banstick. Orrin: If a player wishes to dispute an action of mine with the DPs, then will gladly allow the other DPs to judge it, as it would not be fair for myself to particiapte in a DP role Orrin: that's enough Wall of Text for now, feel free to make it scroll Orrin: If you have questions and I'm not on, drop me a chat and I'll answer when I can 2 days 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 15 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Orrin: He's a question for you all. Someone comes to you saying Person X has argued with Person Y, and intends to attack them with explosives. To back up their claim, they submit a screenshot of the conversation, with both of them in the picture. What would you do? ShuoftheFieryHeat: for various scenarios check this page: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider Orrin: ... Orrin: link on a seperate line for it to work btw ;) ShuoftheFieryHeat: it has loads of areas to consider -> retaliation topic ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider Orrin: pft ShuoftheFieryHeat: also I will try to capture the chat logs and post them on this page ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Kingmaker_Rank_2_11.2F30.2F2009_In_Progress Orrin: quick scan, looks like junk to me I'm afraid... ShuoftheFieryHeat: what do you mean junk? Orrin: way too alternatively in depth/shallow ShuoftheFieryHeat: they are topics <G> not answers Orrin: take for example 'does gaming exist'? Orrin: That's not a question anyone running seriously for DP is going to ask Orrin: Gaming *does* exist, there's no doubt about it at all! ShuoftheFieryHeat: ok I will ask it - DOES game Exist? DO you DO it? (and yes Ive been asked) Orrin: but Gaming is within the limits of the game that Teppy set out. Make no mistake, it's designed to allow it Orrin: I dont mean like that Shu, if a serious DP candidate had to *think* whether 'gaming' exists, they really shouldnt be running for DP Orrin: The game itself rewards both honesty and dishonesty. The trick with dishonesty is not to get caught at it. ShuoftheFieryHeat: well some folks do not think gaming exists - all avatars are created equal - if you have 100 mule account each is as good as any other - so playing 100 mules is aok Orrin: ^^ Orrin: I'm pretty sure those people are aware they're gaming Orrin: they just dont care that they are Orrin: very large difference Orrin: Similar to macros Orrin: That's really quite a silly question, it is common, publically stated knowledge that macros are not cheating ShuoftheFieryHeat: YOU may think its silly but others do not :)) if you dont have the macro or ability to run one you get a different view Orrin: I know all about that Orrin: I run OSX, so I never had a decent mining macro when I needed one. Orrin: Did I whine? No. I learnt to make alloys and traded for all the metal I ever needed. Orrin: You cannot drag down the majority for the sake of the minority ShuoftheFieryHeat: check the last items in the list then :) Orrin: To simply say 'macros are cheating cos I can't use one' is the old fable of the dog in the manger. 'If I can't use it, no-one else can'. ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** I can tell this is gonna be a great great round! ** Orrin: :D Orrin: I'm very vocal, as I'm sure you're aware Orrin: and I have a good sense of ethics Orrin: I can see *why* people might consider it cheating... but that's really just envy in this case Orrin: Trade exists for a reason, as do guilds. Co-operation goes a very long way Orrin: Also,the person that wrote that unfortunately never looked into the more devious ways of causing drama Orrin: would you trust a screenshot? ShuoftheFieryHeat: of what? Orrin: As evidence Orrin: of anything ShuoftheFieryHeat: given that anything digital can be manipulated - if I thought it was not altered I would Orrin: hah Orrin: I could easily fake a conversation debating whether to blow up your CP to get you out of DP Orrin: and you'd never know it was faked ShuoftheFieryHeat: yes I think you could - but you wouldnt have to fake it :) Orrin: trust me, I've just faked a convo, wanted to see how easy it was.. it's really easy Orrin: lol Orrin: I would, if I didnt want to put the blame on me Orrin: I could make it appear that other people were discussing it Orrin: But the moral is 'how much can you actually accept as evidence?' Orrin: The answer is seemingly less and less

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Log 2

Some of the chat had scrolled off the screen since my last loggin...

Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 2

Orrin: Well, pre-automines anyhow Orrin: I've no idea what the devs were on when they made that up Keko: i think game is need to more time for everything Orrin: hmmmm Orrin: depends Orrin: if people worked together more, it wouldnt Keko: gather limestone, mining , flax ext Orrin: Mining got sorted with the advent of automines Keko: are they working together ? Orrin: limestone... I'm intrigued as to the 'other' uses of explosives Orrin: Not right now ;) Orrin: lots of splintered 1/2 man bands Orrin: I'm just as bad... Orrin: I have enough stuff for a large-sized guild... Orrin: and there's just myself and Ary suing it Orrin: using* Keko: same me too Keko: i built guild for turkish players only for help and my mind is if u make anything we can use it who needs to it he can get Orrin: Yeh, we expanded a ton to cope with the increased output weneeded for tech Orrin: we needed* Keko: but more of them working alone and boring after 1 or 2 mounth Keko: month* Orrin: yup, server population is low Keko: yes very very low Orrin: ~300 actives Keko: i saw in ulead 1035 actives Orrin: nah Orrin: that figure is utterly distorted Orrin: IDK how it works, but it's totally distorted Keko: yes Orrin: It also counts mules and pre-pay Orrin: A good ballpark figure is >init of body Orrin: there's 300 of them, or thereabouts Orrin: I know that the last ballot had a around 270 votes cast Keko: definetely Orrin: so the figure of 300 can't be that bad Orrin: but it's 1/3 the 'official' figure... Keko: we did n t get 100 votes for melon wine Orrin: it's got a few more days yet Keko: how ever it must be very easy in 1 or 2 days Orrin: what's the figure now? Keko: i dont know Keko: but approximate 100 Keko: was 86 before 2 days ago Orrin: well if 1/3 people have voted, hes's gotta do something Keko: i m afraid it is hard 2 days 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 11 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 10 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I got this msg from Orrin - he is having prblems loging in >>> Aryballa: Hi Shu:) Aryballa: This is Aryballa, Orrins spouse Aryballa: He asked me to explain to you and the other DP candidates that he can't log on atm Aryballa: I screwed up badly somehow and got him kicked off...trying to get it fixed but we don't now how long it will take :( ShuoftheFieryHeat: ok - I will put a post in the DP chat for him Aryballa: tyvm:) <<< ShuoftheFieryHeat: I missed most of the chat with keko - so I hope he gets to repost he's positions ShuoftheFieryHeat: I've tried to capture some of the chats ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Log_1 ShuoftheFieryHeat: I would also like to hear from Dreasimy too ShuoftheFieryHeat: and of course Shu is got his foot wedged in the door for moving on too :) 2 days 9 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. Dreasimy: HI folks Dreasimy: So basically my vote goes to who I think would make the best, most responsible DP. to me that is someone who able to approach situations where people are asking for bans in a non-emotional way, yet still empathetic. Someone who is also responsible in how they interact with the rest of the populace and won't abuse their immunity from bans. Someone who is unlikely to disappear once they become DP. Someone who can coherently communicate their views about DP and why they should be DP :) Dreasimy: I too guess I have missed a lot of chat so Id appreciate it greatly to get to hear what you all had to say :D Dreasimy: To answer your question (which I was able to see from Shu's wiki page, thank you Shu) no I would never trust a screenshot of anything Dreasimy: Sorry insert "Orrin's Question" :) Still catching up on reading :D Dreasimy: of course Id be happy to have a screenshot to have something specific to inquire about whether it was true or not of the alleged offender :D Dreasimy: I guess I missed anything keko might have said about why keko wants to be DP 2 days 8 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 7 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 2 days 6 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. ShuoftheFieryHeat: I would like folks to discuss some of the cultural problems that arise in the game and how they think things could be resolved. I know its been beaten to death but still the swaticka building and Kastou were a prime example of conflicting views. Dreasimy: That swastika building gets a lot of press because it happened during a DP final round and one of the final candidates left the game over it. It was not the first Swastika compound this telling, and when I told the builder that his sails lost some wind ShuoftheFieryHeat: I know that Orrin has some pretty strong views on things (for example) so how would you approach someone who is having a problem - but you (personally) dont see it as a problem (perhaps of cultural background) - how can you overcome your own limitations ShuoftheFieryHeat: (you == all candidates) Dreasimy: I believe people have the right to express themselves however they want. Including making Swastika compounds. However they also need to accept the consequences. Which when one of the Nigerian Businessmen built one early in the tale I called every one of their guildmembers on it when they wanted to trade with me. Dreasimy: I would never ban someone for it by the way. Dreasimy: however I would not trade with them or help them with tests ShuoftheFieryHeat: so would anything change if they were Tibetan? what if they were and you didnt know? Dreasimy: if it was something I felt done in malice only to disrupt our 'society' then yes I would take personal measures, however I would not ban anyone for being a 'dick' :) I think our society is stronger with diversity. There are some people who are lacking social niceties who are geniouses in other ways that help us all. I know I can protect those who maybe the masses hate but are doing nothing worth being kicked to the curb. Dreasimy: Oh I was speaking specifically to the guy in Nigerian Businessmen and the guy in SA who both did it to provoke a negative response Dreasimy: I know that from speaking to them personally ShuoftheFieryHeat: nods Dreasimy: however if a 3rd person built one and honestly built it to acknowledge a different aspect of the symbol then I would councel them how to handle the negative responses they were getting and also educate those most offended about what I thought they were trying to express ShuoftheFieryHeat: thank you - a well thought out answer ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** I have to log - but I will be looking forward to other comments from everyone Dreasimy: Thanks Shu :D ShuoftheFieryHeat: if we run out topics - please check this wiki page ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider ShuoftheFieryHeat: also I will try to keep the logs going on my page ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Log_1

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