Orrin Thistle Talk

Orrin: right, does everyone have a copy of it now?

Tammie: i do

Orrin: right

Orrin: There are no night-time voids right now

Orrin: so let's have a basic runthrough

Orrin: when you open it, there should be a grey table, two yellow ones, and a green column

Orrin: The grey table is where you put in the clicks for dung/Sp/Water/Oxy, and the sun Level

Orrin: let's start off basic, and add 3 water and oxy

Orrin: On the Tick0 row, add them in under their respective columns

Orrin: you should see the yellow boxes change

Orrin: they are telling you what is there at each tick

Orrin: the left yellow box tells you the Dung/Sp/Water/Oxy/Sun levels at that tick, and the right one tells you the nutrient levels

Orrin: if you look at the small box with the red header, right at the bottom, that's the output

Orrin: B+F+ atm, that's 'standard' outpu

Orrin: now the green column

Orrin: This is a binary system, if you put in '1' it means the reaction happens. Put in 0, the reaction doesn't

Orrin: so, to demonstrate, find the '1' beside the '10 Nia -> 30 fol' entry, and change that to a 0

Orrin: that means now that the conversion of 10 Nia to 30 Fol is 'Voided'

Orrin: You can see now on both the yellow, right hand sheet, that fol is now 39, as opposed to 99, and Thi is now 99

Orrin: The small red-topped box has also changed to reflect that

Orrin: B+F~T+

Orrin: So that's the basics of the Thistle Sim

Orrin: Any questions before I move on to working out recipes?

Wampak: will the working out recipies also cover finding out what the voids are?

blondie: can we get a log of this chat?

Orrin: Log: no, blame teppy and the guy that stole P! off of me xD

Orrin: Wampak: that will be all the way at the end

Wampak: k

Dagny: i'll try to keep copying the chat and put up on wiki later

Orrin: ok

Tammie: will you make yourself available for questions at another time for those of us that can't stay for the entire session? i have to leave in 10 minutes so i'm gonna miss out on the rest of it

Orrin: for you dear, I'm always available

Tammie: yay ty

Hanid: I will try to copy it and put it up somewhere

Orrin: Yeh, feel free to drop me a chat, just be aware it might be Ary logged in as me, I try and answer new chats as they come

ShuoftheFieryHeat: im sorry I missed the chat - but that last zip download crashed my system

Orrin: And for those of you with problems like Shu, get yourself a mac....

ShuoftheFieryHeat: I got a working copy of the excel from firegolem - I would guess its not a windows problem but the download is not being encoded as binary - more of a wiki problem

Orrin: no, it's a problem with your computer

Orrin: and unless the wiki has quantum mechanics, it know nthing other than binary ;)

Hanid: Orrin, did you already talk about finding voids before I stumbled in to Fun

ShuoftheFieryHeat: anyway mute point - got the SS now thanks

ShuoftheFieryHeat: nope - I download junk all the time but from the T4 wiki - sometimes it doesnt work - I get stuff from all over just fine thank you

Orrin: nope Hanid

Orrin: (sec, gotta land on the wall again)

Hanid: Oh goo

Aryballa: if its me logged in as Orrin I typically don't read the chats in case they are private...but the real orrin will answer when he logs on

Orrin: so your chats to me are safe Tammie ;D

Orrin: Alright

Orrin: This next bit is the harder bit

Orrin: Change that '0' back to a '1'

Orrin: I'm going to attempt making F~N+P+T-, note attempt ;)

Hanid: I would rather you made A+F-N+P-T+ roflmao

Orrin: Ok, I'll try it ;)

Orrin: Ah no I wont, Asc is a sun thing

Orrin: Dont have sun voids yet

Hanid: just kidding anyway

Spooner: my brain has a void

Orrin: ok, so if we look at the top of the right side yellow column...

Orrin: the one that deals with the nutrients

Orrin: It looks like there's a conversion to bio, car and nia

Orrin: However, lesson #1

Orrin: Void the Nit->Asc reaction (that green column remember?)

Orrin: Notice that the Nia goes? That's because the Nit is being converted to Asc, then through reactions to Nia.

Orrin: This is very very important. Reactions happen in the order that they are in on the sheet.

Orrin: So first off, Nit is converted to Asc

Orrin: Then, that Asc is converted to Nia *In the Same Tick*

Orrin: I wanna make sure everyone follows that

Orrin: any questions?

Orrin: none?

Hanid: I am waiting to hear about loops, but that is later I think

Orrin: that's later yup

blondie: well, nit is (dung), but asc and nia are nutrients?

Dagny: for those just joining in, i'm keeping a log here:

Dagny: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Orrin_Thistle_Talk

Orrin: Yes Blondie

Hanid: Thanks Dagny

Orrin: nothing much happens until tick 6, then it gets interesting

Orrin: At tick 6, the water level is low enough for the Nia from the Nit->Asc->Nia conversion to get turned into Fol.

Orrin: Then at tick 7, it happens again, but because there's not 10 Nia to convert, it just converts what it has at 1:3 ratio

blondie: are we still making the daily voids on nit to asc 0 or 1?

Orrin: so the 3 Nia left becomes 9 Fol

Orrin: All at 1

Hanid: OK

Orrin: But that's the end of Fol. Fol will now do nothing unless we add light, or Oxy

Orrin: at tick 7, you also notice that the Car has turned to Thi

Orrin: now, because Thi is at the end of the list of conversions, it doesn't get immediately 'reacted'. It has to wait for the next tick

Orrin: here we come to the basis of all good recipes. Feedback Reactions

Orrin: Here, Car has turned to Thi at a ration of 1:2

Orrin: Here, Car has turned to Thi at a ration of 1:2

Orrin: But you see that Thi can also turn to Car at a ration of 1:2

Orrin: so for every 1 Car, 2 Thi is created, which then turns into 4 Car, which then turns into 8 Thi etc etc

Hanid: this is the part I have trouble with

Orrin: Ok, let's go over this in a little more detail

Orrin: Each reaction has a condition which must be met before it happens

Orrin: you can see them, and the ratios, next to the green Void column

Orrin: For Car to be turned to Thi, there must be less than 49 Oxygen

Orrin: For Thi to become Car, there must be less than 39 water. These two do not exclude each other, so both can happen together

Hanid: sometimes it is a one way street

Orrin: Correct. Let's look at Asc.

Orrin: Fol->Asc happens when sun >69

Orrin: But there's no direct conversion for Asc to turn back to Fol. In fact, all that will happen as you create Asc this way is that it will turn to Bio if your water is less than 29

Hanid: *sigh*

Orrin: so if you want to keep your Asc, keep water >29 ;)

Sashagirl: ok now how do you get the PY in with the TH

Orrin: We look for a reaction that uses Thi, Car or Fol. There are no Fol ones, so we look for Car or Thi

Orrin: Bio is useless, once it is there you can't get rid of it

Sashagirl: Mine is asking for A+B+P~T~

Orrin: Wait for the right voidset

Orrin: ok

Sashagirl: oh ok or hope someone has 1 thistle of it to rest it

Hanid: I guess that is the real answer, don't fight the Void Gods

blondie: how do we know what the current voids are?

Orrin: Later blondie! Usually just /info Ephemere

Hanid: LOL

Hanid: ephemere

Hanid: rocks

Orrin: Right....

Orrin: Pyr is relatively easy to create

Orrin: We can convert 10 fol to 20 pyr

Orrin: THe trick is going to be creating Nia

Orrin: Or more accurately, keeping the Nia we make there.

Orrin: With water lower than 59, it gets converted away to Fol

Orrin: Lower than 49, it goes to Thi

Orrin: So we need to ensure water is always greater than 59

Orrin: So, we pick a tick where the buildup has stopped happening, say Tick 17

Orrin: and Add in 5 clicks of water. That should make sure it stays right?

Sashagirl: Yes

Orrin: Try it and see