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User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker Details/Archived 200911 DP Chat Logs

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Kingmaker December 2009

Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 In Progress

Log 1


Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 1
Demi-Pharaoh Rank 2.
Welcome Dreasimy, ShuoftheFieryHeat, Orrin, Keko.
In the next 3 days you must nominate one to be Demi-Pharaoh.
More information can be found at voting booths.
Keko: hi all
Orrin: Heya :)
Orrin: Hmmm.... so they put you through Dreasimy ;)
Orrin: It'll be a 2 person runoff this time then
2 days 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 20 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 19 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 18 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: hi all
Orrin: Heyas Shu :)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: so is this the final round? or is there another after this?
Orrin: nah
Orrin: 4 people in the round
Orrin: I should be very surprised if there's more then 2 people in the final election
Orrin: I can't think that there'd be more than 8 penultimate groups
ShuoftheFieryHeat: last election there were 5 people in the final
Orrin: yeh, 10 groups
ShuoftheFieryHeat: k
Orrin: Nchanter explained it yesterday
Orrin: >7 people through, there's a runoff
ShuoftheFieryHeat: well for the record - I would like to be considered as the one to go forward
Orrin: so in this case, it seems like 8 people got through 
Orrin: You and everyone else here both I think :)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: just throwing my hat in ring <G>
Orrin: hmph... throwing hats is a waste of hats ;)
Orrin: I'll add some explosives instead... useless things
Orrin: Anyway, to lay my credidentials on the table: GMT English speaking, bits of spanish, good chunk of french (Enough to point them to Ephemere anyway!)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: Greenich Mean Time English? <didnt know they had a special version there> <g>
Orrin: Get on well with existing DPs, very active player, talk to a lot of people, mod of Funtasy, Founder of PRET, 1/2 of lead research donator in Meroe, held talks on cooking and thistles, written a very nearly complete listing of all food stats
Orrin: yeh, GMT english is refined, none of that american drivel :P
Orrin: *scuse the short teabreak*
Orrin: Good sense of humour, very up to date on the whisperings going on, also have the support of elders in both meroe's main guilds
Orrin: Mediation-wise I'm mature enough not to get drawn in, and I'm very much a 'play by the rules' person. If someone shares a cicada cage location, that is playing by the rules and not a matter for a DP to start shaking a banstick.
Orrin: If a player wishes to dispute an action of mine with the DPs, then will gladly allow the other DPs to judge it, as it would not be fair for myself to particiapte in a DP role
Orrin: that's enough Wall of Text for now, feel free to make it scroll
Orrin: If you have questions and I'm not on, drop me a chat and I'll answer when I can
2 days 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 15 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Orrin: He's a question for you all. Someone comes to you saying Person X has argued with Person Y, and intends to attack them with explosives. To back up their claim, they submit a screenshot of the conversation, with both of them in the picture. What would you do?
ShuoftheFieryHeat: for various scenarios check this page: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider
Orrin: ...
Orrin: link on a seperate line for it to work btw ;)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: it has loads of areas to consider -> retaliation topic
ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider
Orrin: pft
ShuoftheFieryHeat: also I will try to capture the chat logs and post them on this page
ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Kingmaker_Rank_2_11.2F30.2F2009_In_Progress
Orrin: quick scan, looks like junk to me I'm afraid...
ShuoftheFieryHeat: what do you mean junk?
Orrin: way too alternatively in depth/shallow
ShuoftheFieryHeat: they are topics <G> not answers
Orrin: take for example 'does gaming exist'?
Orrin: That's not a question anyone running seriously for DP is going to ask
Orrin: Gaming *does* exist, there's no doubt about it at all!
ShuoftheFieryHeat: ok I will ask it - DOES game Exist? DO you DO it?  (and yes Ive been asked)
Orrin: but Gaming is within the limits of the game that Teppy set out. Make no mistake, it's designed to allow it
Orrin: I dont mean like that Shu, if a serious DP candidate had to *think* whether 'gaming' exists, they really shouldnt be running for DP
Orrin: The game itself rewards both honesty and dishonesty. The trick with dishonesty is not to get caught at it.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: well some folks do not think gaming exists - all avatars are created equal - if you have  100 mule account each is as good as any other - so playing 100 mules is aok
Orrin: ^^
Orrin: I'm pretty sure those people are aware they're gaming
Orrin: they just dont care that they are
Orrin: very large difference
Orrin: Similar to macros
Orrin: That's really quite a silly question, it is common, publically stated knowledge that macros are not cheating
ShuoftheFieryHeat: YOU may think its silly but others do not :)) if you dont have the macro or ability to run one you get  a different view
Orrin: I know all about that
Orrin: I run OSX, so I never had a decent mining macro when I needed one.
Orrin: Did I whine? No. I learnt to make alloys and traded for all the metal I ever needed.
Orrin: You cannot drag down the majority for the sake of the minority
ShuoftheFieryHeat: check the last items in the list then :)
Orrin: To simply say 'macros are cheating cos I can't use one' is the old fable of the dog in the manger. 'If I can't use it, no-one else can'.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** I can tell this is gonna be a great great round! **
Orrin: :D
Orrin: I'm very vocal, as I'm sure you're aware
Orrin: and I have a good sense of ethics
Orrin: I can see *why* people might consider it cheating... but that's really just envy in this case
Orrin: Trade exists for a reason, as do guilds. Co-operation goes a very long way
Orrin: Also,the person that wrote that unfortunately never looked into the more devious ways of causing drama
Orrin: would you trust a screenshot?
ShuoftheFieryHeat: of what?
Orrin: As evidence
Orrin: of anything
ShuoftheFieryHeat: given that anything digital can be manipulated - if I thought it was not altered I would
Orrin: hah
Orrin: I could easily fake a conversation debating whether to blow up your CP to get you out of DP
Orrin: and you'd never know it was faked
ShuoftheFieryHeat: yes I think you could - but you wouldnt have to fake it :)
Orrin: trust me, I've just faked a convo, wanted to see how easy it was.. it's really easy
Orrin: lol
Orrin: I would, if I didnt want to put the blame on me
Orrin: I could make it appear that other people were discussing it
Orrin: But the moral is 'how much can you actually accept as evidence?'
Orrin: The answer is seemingly less and less

Log 2

Some of the chat had scrolled off the screen since my last login...


Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 2

Orrin: Well, pre-automines anyhow
Orrin: I've no idea what the devs were on when they made that up
Keko: i think game is need to more time for everything
Orrin: hmmmm
Orrin: depends
Orrin: if people worked together more, it wouldnt
Keko: gather limestone, mining , flax  ext
Orrin: Mining got sorted with the advent of automines
Keko: are they working together ?
Orrin: limestone... I'm intrigued as to the 'other' uses of explosives
Orrin: Not right now ;)
Orrin: lots of splintered 1/2 man bands
Orrin: I'm just as bad...
Orrin: I have enough stuff for a large-sized guild...
Orrin: and there's just myself and Ary suing it
Orrin: using*
Keko: same me too
Keko: i built guild for turkish players only for help and my mind is  if u make anything we can use it who needs to it he can get
Orrin: Yeh, we expanded a ton to cope with the increased output weneeded for tech
Orrin: we needed*
Keko: but more of them working alone and boring after 1 or 2 mounth
Keko: month*
Orrin: yup, server population is low
Keko: yes very very low
Orrin: ~300 actives
Keko: i saw in ulead 1035 actives
Orrin: nah
Orrin: that figure is utterly distorted
Orrin: IDK how it works, but it's totally distorted
Keko: yes
Orrin: It also counts mules and pre-pay
Orrin: A good ballpark figure is >init of body
Orrin: there's 300 of them, or thereabouts
Orrin: I know that the last ballot had a around 270 votes cast
Keko: definetely
Orrin: so the figure of 300 can't be that bad
Orrin: but it's 1/3 the 'official' figure...
Keko: we did n t get 100 votes for melon wine
Orrin: it's got a few more days yet
Keko: how ever it must be very easy in 1 or 2 days
Orrin: what's the figure now?
Keko: i dont know
Keko: but approximate 100
Keko: was 86 before 2 days ago
Orrin: well if 1/3 people have voted, hes's gotta do something
Keko: i m afraid it is hard
2 days 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 11 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 10 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: I got this msg from Orrin - he is having prblems loging in >>> Aryballa: Hi Shu:) Aryballa: This is Aryballa, Orrins spouse Aryballa: He asked me to explain to you and the other DP candidates that he can't log on atm Aryballa: I screwed up badly somehow and got him kicked off...trying to get it fixed but we don't now how long it will take :( ShuoftheFieryHeat: ok - I will put a post in the DP chat for him Aryballa: tyvm:)  <<<
ShuoftheFieryHeat: I missed most of the chat with keko - so I  hope he gets to repost he's positions
ShuoftheFieryHeat: I've tried to capture some of the chats
ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Log_1
ShuoftheFieryHeat: I would also like to hear from Dreasimy too 
ShuoftheFieryHeat: and of course Shu is got his foot wedged in the door for moving on too :)
2 days 9 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Dreasimy: HI folks
Dreasimy: So basically my vote goes to who I think would make the best, most responsible DP. to me that is someone who able to approach situations where people are asking for bans in a non-emotional way, yet still empathetic. Someone who is also responsible in how they interact with the rest of the populace and won't abuse their immunity from bans. Someone who is unlikely to disappear once they become DP. Someone who can coherently communicate their views about DP and why they should be DP :)
Dreasimy: I too guess I have missed a lot of chat so Id appreciate it greatly to get to hear what you all had to say :D
Dreasimy: To answer your question (which I was able to see from Shu's wiki page, thank you Shu) no I would never trust a screenshot of anything
Dreasimy: Sorry insert "Orrin's Question" :) Still catching up on reading :D
Dreasimy: of course Id be happy to have a screenshot to have something specific to inquire about whether it was true or not of the alleged offender :D
Dreasimy: I guess I missed anything keko might have said about why keko wants to be DP
2 days 8 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 7 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 6 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: I would like folks to discuss some of the cultural problems that arise in the game and how they think things could be resolved.  I know its been beaten to death but still the swaticka building and Kastou were a prime example of conflicting views.
Dreasimy: That swastika building gets a lot of press because it happened during a DP final round and one of the final candidates left the game over it. It was not the first Swastika compound this telling, and when I told the builder that his sails lost some wind
ShuoftheFieryHeat: I know that Orrin has some pretty strong views on things (for example) so how would you approach someone who is having a problem - but you (personally) dont see it as a problem (perhaps of cultural background) - how can you overcome your own limitations
ShuoftheFieryHeat: (you == all candidates)
Dreasimy: I believe people have the right to express themselves however they want. Including making Swastika compounds. However they also need to accept the consequences. Which when one of the Nigerian Businessmen built one early in the tale I called every one of their guildmembers on it when they wanted to trade with me.
Dreasimy: I would never ban someone for it  by the way.
Dreasimy: however I would not trade with them or help them with tests
ShuoftheFieryHeat: so would anything change if they were Tibetan? what if they were and you didnt know?
Dreasimy: if it was something I felt done in malice only to disrupt our 'society' then yes I would take personal measures, however I would not ban anyone for being a 'dick' :) I think our society is stronger with diversity. There are some people who are lacking social niceties who are geniouses in other ways that help us all. I know I can protect those who maybe the masses hate but are doing nothing worth being kicked to the curb. 
Dreasimy: Oh I was speaking specifically to the guy in Nigerian Businessmen and the guy in SA who both did it to provoke a negative response
Dreasimy: I know that from speaking to them personally
ShuoftheFieryHeat: nods
Dreasimy: however if a 3rd person built one and honestly built it to acknowledge a different aspect of the symbol then I would councel them how to handle the negative responses they were getting and also educate those most offended about what I thought they were trying to express
ShuoftheFieryHeat: thank you - a well thought out answer
ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** I have to log - but I will be looking forward to other comments from everyone
Dreasimy: Thanks Shu :D
ShuoftheFieryHeat: if we run out topics - please check this wiki page
ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Demi-Pharaoh#DP_Ban_Topics_to_Consider
ShuoftheFieryHeat: also I will try to keep the logs going on my page
ShuoftheFieryHeat: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/User:Shuofthefieryheat/MyPassagesPage/Kingmaker_Details/DP_Chat_Logs#Log_1
2 days 5 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Dreasimy: Also I should mention that if one of those offended were speaking a different language than I (English) then I do also have people who can translate for me
Dreasimy: I love that this game has players from all over the world, I do my best to embrace that in every aspect including events I run
2 days 4 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 3 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Keko: why i m wanting to be DP... i explain
Keko: I've been playing Atitd since mid T3 and have always enjoyed the game and friends that I have made here. I'm from Istanbul.I'm 42 years and current unemployed due to to medical reasons so I have lots of time to play. I'm on most days and spend way to much time in game.
Keko: In Game I spend most of my time in Stillwater working on helping my guild mates and working to passing tests.
Keko: i enjoy to social aspects of the games and being a DP would hopefully allow me to get to know more players and not just to help solve problems...  a DP should be a role model of sorts and i think the way i play the game is good way... 
Keko: to try to pass tests, to help other players when i can,  to try to keepthings here on the light tone...  more fun than drama  i also think i would simply like to see if i have what it takes to get elected ...
Keko: at a certain point the player has the address many question that are debated endlessly and how i handle those questions will show me whether i have the character to be accepted and trusted  as a DP... and finally i think because i m thrustworthy and a level headed player...
Keko: i could try to make more players not to be so cynical about DP role ... many players think that DP 's are just players who crove power ands need their ego's boosted...perhaps i could try to changed that perception
2 days 2 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
2 days 1 hour left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Orrin is back!
Orrin: the bug still exists...
Orrin: but it doesn't crash under windows
Orrin: quick read...
Orrin: and to be blunt Dreasimy, if you're not gonna use the bans, why should you be a DP?
Orrin: The *only* difference between a normal player and a DP *IS* the bans
Orrin: I'm utterly confident you could do an excellent mediation job as an ordinary player
Orrin: and if DP's are role models, that could explain why this game is so damn quiet
2 days left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Orrin: That's the number 1 problem with this game right now, lack of people and lack of enthusiasm
Orrin: anyhow, I've got my account back and should have cleared the problem
Orrin: time to do some work
Orrin: ciao :)
1 day 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 20 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 19 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 18 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: After reviewing all the comments so far and also past elections at this time I am going to vote for myself.
ShuoftheFieryHeat voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: I am totally committed to moving on to the next round and I hope all of you will support me in that endeavor.
ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** have to log for now - hope to BBL 
Orrin: Well, I am likewise committed
Keko: is it vote time:)
Keko voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.
Orrin: I see you and raise you one
Orrin voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.
Orrin: This is going nowhere :D
Keko: it s better:)
Orrin: Agreed
1 day 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 15 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Dreasimy: rofl
Dreasimy: males.
Dreasimy: Orrin, I never said anything about never banning so please do not put words in my mouth for the others :)
Dreasimy: In general, I think it's better to have diversity in this game, even people who make swastika compounds and are assholes :D
Dreasimy: There are some people who really want to act like police officers and decide who is 'good' and who is 'bad' I tend to not view people as good and bad but as people with differing needs
Dreasimy: when you look at them that way and can be empathetic to both sides you can more easily reach a common ground 
Dreasimy: However, I have always stated that I would ban happily in the right situation, I'll share my thoughts on that and Id love to hear from you on the same. Some people want to be banned, they will do anything to get 'killed by DP' sadly even tho I don't want to waste a ban on something like that, the situation usually requires it. Also there are a few other types of situations I can imagine, hypotheticals, that I would consider it seriously and those are where imminent mass damage to things not easily replaced was surely to occur...
Dreasimy: and also if there was some very severe harassment too horrible to describe was occuring without the offender being willing to talk or negotiate or stop and I witnessed it myself
Dreasimy: And, I would really appreciate your vote to move forward :)
Orrin: must have misread that, apologies
Orrin: thougt I read you saying that you intended never to use the bans
Orrin: and it seems to me that this group consists of 4 people who all think they're the best for the job
Dreasimy: ya I have never ever said in 4 tales that I would never ban, however I do think banning shouldn't be the first option usually :D And regarding who goes forward, I have an open mind, I really want someone that I would vote for in the final, that could be me or someone else.
Dreasimy: I wish I thought the rest of you were also open minded :D
Orrin: Hehe
Orrin: Oh, I have my preferences
Orrin: It just remains to decide a majority
Orrin: Speaking for myself, I decided to vote that way as a deadlock.
Dreasimy: I'll be here and afk on and off, working and gonna start dinner :D
Orrin: Just eaten mine... and it's almost 11pm ><
1 day 14 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 13 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
1 day 12 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
Keko: biz bu testle cok ugrasicaz söyliyim
Keko: sry wrong tab
ShuoftheFieryHeat: hi all - I see some action has been happening
ShuoftheFieryHeat: so far the score is Orrin 1 Keko 1 Shu 1 undecided 1
Keko: and noone goes to oscar :)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: lots of time left for questions / answers 
ShuoftheFieryHeat: we have a saying - it's not over until its over :)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: Shu is staying firmly wedged into the door for the next round - who will help push him though? 2 more votes is a lock - who can get them or who will give them?
Keko: looks like a game over for us :)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: there are only 4 of us in this round - cooperation is a must - if we all vote for ourselves then like Keko says - no one goes to the oscars and whoever is in the Other Round has a lock on DP
ShuoftheFieryHeat: (orrin indicated there are only 2 groups - so the other guy gets DP as a walk-away)
Keko: possible :)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: well I wouldnt say game over - its now a matter of cooperation - can others put aside their own ambitions to push Shu though?
Keko: or maybe somebody will push me :)
ShuoftheFieryHeat: The question of the day of course is: Can anyone else muster 3 votes?  Can orrin get keko and dreasimy ? Can keko get orrin and dreasimy?
ShuoftheFieryHeat: and of course: Can Shu get (orrin keko) (orrin dreasimy) ?
Keko: 2 votes enough for pass
ShuoftheFieryHeat: no 2 votes is a deadlock - you need 3 for a pass
ShuoftheFieryHeat: ** 3 total to guarantee the round
Keko: changes everything in here




Log 3

Some of the chat had scrolled off the screen since my last login...


Kingmaker Rank 2 11/30/2009 Log 3

Orrin: Well, pre-automines anyhow
Orrin: I've no idea what the devs were on when they made that up



Keko: changes everything in here