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User:Aphenro/Vines/Tannin
This is a work in progress. Unfortunately I captured my first set of data using real days instead of both Egypt and real days. I'm currently capturing better data to support the hypothesis and confirm the 21 in the exponential. Stay tuned.
Understanding Tannin
You’re an aspiring chemist and you want/need to make some Wood, Worm or Grain spirits in an alembic. Surfing through the wiki you read that you need wine with high tannin. You’ve got your grapes; you load them into the barrel and wait. Periodically you siphon off a sample and check the tannin level. Unfortunately the levels are not going up very fast. Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to predict which grapes will give the most tannin. Well now we can. As it turns out tannin is developed in wine from three characteristics, colour (C), skin (K) and patience (time). In fact the formula is relatively straight forward.
Where:
T is the amount of tannin.
C is the colour value of the grapes.
K is the skin value of the grapes.
ETD is the amount of Egypt time (in days) the wine has been in the barrel.
Alternate formula: T=C*K/100*(1-2^(-ETD/21))
From this you can see that the maximum tannin possible is the colour value multiplied by the skin value divided by 100. So when you pick with vines/grapes to use you must also look for a C phenome. Colour is just as important as skin! Having wine with a skin value of 300 but a colour value of 10 will only yield 30 tannin. But if you could magically take 100 points from skin and put them into colour the maximum tannin jumps to 220 (110 X 200 / 100).
Furthermore you won’t have to guess how long you have to wait for the tannin to develop. After 21 Egypt days (approximately a RL week) the wine in the barrel will have developed half its maximum tannin. If you can wait another 21 Egypt days that value will rise to 75% of maximum.
As you can see from the data below the formula predicts the actual very closely. The differences are probably attributable to some rounding issues between my spreadsheet and game.
Data
Test #1
| Vine | Phenome | Wine | Hue | Barrel |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tedra's Tannin | ACCKKKS | Aphenro Tannin Test Alpha | Red | Alpha |
| Acid | Colour | Grapes | Quality | Skin | Sugar | Vigor | Max. Tannin | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 55 | 91 | 37 | 25 | 132 | 6 | 1 | 120.12 | <== Colour X Skin |
| Egypt Time | Alcohol | Sugar | Tannin | Acid | Elapsed Time (ETD) | Tannin Predicted | Difference |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Akhet IV-12 23:35 | 0.0 | 3.0 | 0.0 | 5.5 | - | - | - |
| Akhet IV-14 04:50 | 0.2 | 2.9 | 4.8 | 5.5 | 1.22 | 4.7 | 0.1 |
| Akhet IV-15 12:35 | 0.5 | 2.7 | 9.7 | 5.5 | 2.54 | 9.7 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-17 02:40 | 0.8 | 2.6 | 15.4 | 5.5 | 4.13 | 15.3 | 0.1 |
| Akhet IV-18 02:30 | 0.9 | 2.5 | 18.7 | 5.5 | 5.12 | 18.7 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-20 16:05 | 1.4 | 2.3 | 27.0 | 5.5 | 7.69 | 26.9 | 0.1 |
| Akhet IV-23 15:10 | 1.8 | 2.1 | 35.7 | 5.5 | 10.65 | 35.6 | 0.1 |
| Akhet IV-26 06:10 | 2.1 | 1.9 | 42.6 | 5.5 | 13.27 | 42.6 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-29 00:26 | 2.5 | 1.7 | 49.5 | 5.5 | 16.04 | 49.4 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-5 09:55 | 3.1 | 1.4 | 62.9 | 5.5 | 22.43 | 62.8 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-9 16:15 | 3.5 | 1.2 | 70.4 | 5.5 | 26.69 | 70.4 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-12 07:40 | 3.7 | 1.1 | 74.8 | 5.5 | 29.34 | 74.5 | 0.3 |
| Peret I-15 01:00 | 3.9 | 1.0 | 78.6 | 5.5 | 32.06 | 78.4 | 0.2 |
| Peret I-17 13:20 | 4.1 | 0.9 | 81.6 | 5.5 | 34.57 | 81.7 | -0.1 |
| Peret I-22 23:10 | 4.4 | 0.8 | 88.0 | 5.5 | 39.98 | 88.0 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-25 11:10 | 4.5 | 0.7 | 90.6 | 5.5 | 42.48 | 90.6 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-28 09:05 | 4.7 | 0.6 | 93.3 | 5.5 | 45.40 | 93.3 | 0.0 |
| Peret II-1 01:05 | 4.8 | 0.6 | 95.6 | 5.5 | 48.06 | 95.5 | 0.1 |
| Peret II-3 17:30 | 4.9 | 0.5 | 97.7 | 5.5 | 50.75 | 97.6 | 0.1 |
Test #2
| Vine | Phenome | Wine | Hue | Barrel |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tedra's Tannin | ACCKKKS | Aphenro Tannin Test Beta | Red | Beta |
| Acid | Colour | Grapes | Quality | Skin | Sugar | Vigor | Max. Tannin | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 16 | 32 | 46 | 16 | 133 | 11 | 3 | 42.56 | <== Colour X Skin |
| Egypt Time | Alcohol | Sugar | Tannin | Acid | Elapsed Time (ETD) | Tannin Predicted | Difference |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Akhet IV-12 23:50 | 0.0 | 5.5 | 0.0 | 1.6 | - | - | - |
| Akhet IV-14 04:50 | 0.4 | 5.3 | 1.7 | 1.6 | 1.21 | 1.7 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-15 12:35 | 0.9 | 5.0 | 3.4 | 1.6 | 2.53 | 3.4 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-17 02:40 | 1.4 | 4.8 | 5.4 | 1.6 | 4.12 | 5.4 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-18 02:30 | 1.7 | 4.5 | 6.6 | 1.6 | 5.11 | 6.6 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-20 16:05 | 2.5 | 4.2 | 9.5 | 1.6 | 7.68 | 9.5 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-23 15:10 | 3.3 | 3.8 | 12.6 | 1.6 | 10.64 | 12.6 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-26 06:10 | 3.9 | 3.5 | 15.1 | 1.6 | 13.26 | 15.1 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-29 00:26 | 4.5 | 3.2 | 17.5 | 1.6 | 16.03 | 17.5 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-5 09:55 | 5.8 | 2.6 | 22.3 | 1.6 | 22.42 | 22.3 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-9 16:15 | 6.4 | 2.3 | 24.9 | 1.6 | 26.68 | 24.9 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-12 07:40 | 6.8 | 2.1 | 26.4 | 1.6 | 29.33 | 26.4 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-15 01:00 | 7.2 | 1.9 | 27.8 | 1.6 | 32.05 | 27.8 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-17 13:20 | 7.5 | 1.7 | 29.0 | 1.6 | 34.56 | 29.0 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-22 23:10 | 8.1 | 1.4 | 31.2 | 1.6 | 39.97 | 31.2 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-25 11:10 | 8.3 | 1.3 | 32.1 | 1.6 | 42.47 | 32.1 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-28 09:05 | 8.5 | 1.2 | 33.1 | 1.6 | 45.39 | 33.0 | 0.1 |
| Peret II-1 01:05 | 8.8 | 1.1 | 33.9 | 1.6 | 48.05 | 33.8 | 0.1 |
| Peret II-3 17:30 | 8.9 | 1.0 | 34.6 | 1.6 | 50.74 | 34.6 | 0.0 |
Test #3
| Vine | Phenome | Wine | Hue | Barrel |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aphenro#4 | KKKAC | Aphenro Tannin Test Gamma | Dark Red | Gamma |
| Acid | Colour | Grapes | Quality | Skin | Sugar | Vigor | Max. Tannin | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 75 | 82 | 51 | 30 | 229 | 35 | 2 | 187.78 | <== Colour X Skin |
| Egypt Time | Alcohol | Sugar | Tannin | Acid | Elapsed Time (ETD) | Tannin Predicted | Difference |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Akhet IV-15 12:20 | 0.0 | 17.5 | 0.0 | 7.5 | - | - | - |
| Akhet IV-17 02:40 | 1.8 | 16.6 | 9.6 | 7.5 | 1.60 | 9.6 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-18 02:30 | 2.9 | 16.0 | 15.4 | 7.5 | 2.59 | 15.4 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-20 16:05 | 5.5 | 14.7 | 29.5 | 7.5 | 5.16 | 29.4 | 0.1 |
| Akhet IV-23 15:10 | 8.2 | 13.4 | 44.1 | 7.5 | 8.12 | 44.1 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-26 06:10 | 10.5 | 12.2 | 56.1 | 7.5 | 10.74 | 56.1 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-29 00:26 | 11.6 | 11.7 | 67.6 | 7.5 | 13.50 | 67.5 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-5 09:55 | 11.9 | 11.5 | 90.5 | 7.5 | 19.90 | 90.4 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-9 16:15 | 12.1 | 11.4 | 103.3 | 7.5 | 24.16 | 103.2 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-12 07:40 | 12.2 | 11.4 | 110.2 | 7.5 | 26.81 | 110.3 | -0.1 |
| Peret I-15 01:00 | 12.3 | 11.3 | 117.0 | 7.5 | 29.53 | 116.9 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-17 13:20 | 12.3 | 11.3 | 122.6 | 7.5 | 32.04 | 122.6 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-22 23:10 | 12.5 | 11.2 | 133.3 | 7.5 | 37.45 | 133.2 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-25 11:10 | 12.5 | 11.2 | 137.6 | 7.5 | 39.95 | 137.6 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-28 09:05 | 12.6 | 11.2 | 142.1 | 7.5 | 42.86 | 142.2 | -0.1 |
| Peret II-1 01:05 | 12.6 | 11.2 | 146.1 | 7.5 | 45.53 | 146.0 | 0.1 |
| Peret II-3 17:30 | 12.7 | 11.1 | 149.7 | 7.5 | 48.22 | 149.5 | 0.2 |
Test #4
| Vine | Phenome | Wine | Hue | Barrel |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aphenro's Q Ball | ACGKQQSV | Aphenro Tannin Test Delta | White | Delta |
| Acid | Colour | Grapes | Quality | Skin | Sugar | Vigor | Max. Tannin | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 123 | 98 | 179 | 190 | 38 | 103 | 3 | 37.24 | <== Colour X Skin |
| Egypt Time | Alcohol | Sugar | Tannin | Acid | Elapsed Time (ETD) | Tannin Predicted | Difference |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Akhet IV-18 08:45 | 0.0 | 51.5 | 0.0 | 12.3 | - | - | - |
| Akhet IV-20 16:05 | 7.6 | 47.7 | 2.8 | 12.3 | 2.31 | 2.7 | 0.1 |
| Akhet IV-23 15:10 | 10.7 | 46.1 | 5.9 | 12.3 | 5.27 | 5.9 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-26 06:10 | 11.1 | 45.9 | 8.5 | 12.3 | 7.89 | 8.5 | 0.0 |
| Akhet IV-29 00:26 | 11.3 | 45.8 | 11.1 | 12.3 | 10.65 | 11.0 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-5 09:55 | 11.8 | 45.6 | 16.1 | 12.3 | 17.05 | 16.0 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-9 16:15 | 12.0 | 45.5 | 18.8 | 12.3 | 21.31 | 18.8 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-12 07:40 | 12.1 | 45.4 | 20.4 | 12.3 | 23.95 | 20.4 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-15 01:00 | 12.2 | 45.4 | 21.8 | 12.3 | 26.68 | 21.8 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-17 13:20 | 12.2 | 45.4 | 23.1 | 12.3 | 29.19 | 23.0 | 0.1 |
| Peret I-22 23:10 | 12.4 | 45.3 | 25.4 | 12.3 | 34.60 | 25.4 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-25 11:10 | 12.5 | 45.2 | 26.3 | 12.3 | 37.10 | 26.3 | 0.0 |
| Peret I-28 09:05 | 12.5 | 45.2 | 27.3 | 12.3 | 40.01 | 27.3 | 0.0 |
| Peret II-1 01:05 | 12.6 | 45.2 | 28.2 | 12.3 | 42.68 | 28.1 | 0.1 |
| Peret II-3 17:30 | 12.6 | 45.2 | 28.9 | 12.3 | 45.36 | 28.9 | 0.0 |
What's Next
Track the barrels for a longer period of time. Does the formula continue on or does it switch at some point?
How is sugar converted into alcohol?
Now that we know how to maximize tannin, what does 110 vs 100 tannin mean in the alembic? Is the extra tannin worth the time? Are there break points or is it smooth continuous?
