Demipharaoh Debates/2012 03 20

Back to Demi-Pharaoh Debates

This election has candidates from 3 different continents which makes it difficult to get all 5 together at once due to various scheduling conflicts. Due to these circumstances, we have two debate times scheduled.

Election 3 Ariella, Chet, Lazybum, oDiS, Sabina March 22 2012

March 20, 2012 Debate #1 Ariella & Lazybum

Dreasimy: Welcome to the 1st Debate in the 3rd Election for Demi-Pharaoh of the 6th Tale of ATITD! For the duration of the debate trade posts on Bazaar will be halted (you can use L2PBS for this purpose during this period) and only debate-appropriate posts will be let through. Our candidates for this debate are Ariella and Lazybum! In 8 hours, the 2nd debate will be held which will host Chet, oDiS, and Sabina.

Dreasimy: If you have questions that you would like to submit during the debate, just submit them to Bazaar or via Chat to Dreasimy but please note that comments, discussion, personal attacks, and redundant questions will be tabled or asked to be rephrased. Also, I will do my best to also reframe any candidate-specific questions so that any candidate can answer them (tho your original question will remain in tact for the person you specified.)

Dreasimy: For those who have never had the opportunity to interact with you before can you share a little about yourself and/or what you enjoy about ATITD and how long you've been playing?

Dreasimy: (Oops sorry since we started 1 hour late, the next debate is actually in 7 hours not 8 as I stated above)

Ariella: Okay, here goes. I've been playing atitd since day 1 of Tale 2. In real life I run a couple of S corps where my guys make windows nice and clean to let the sun in. Our company also does the hanging thing on high rise. I love flowers in real life! I also am a master woodworker and enjoy making a variety of wood art including classical guitars. I don't like to cook except for desserts. Thankfully, hubby does like to and in game loves making recipes.

Ariella: I think most know that I enjoy making guides. I love the game and think it's totally unique and want to support it in whatever way I can. My little wish for a learning channel came true this tale thanks to Bessodia :) And the most fun has been meeting so many people in game...including my real life hubby, Pascalito :)

Lazybum: Hello, I am Lazybum, accually a totally ironic name as I am far from lazy, I started playing day 1 of of Tale2. In real life I am a jack of all trades, I bartend, build and program computers, an electrictiian, sales man, weilder, make quilts and do other various things with fabric.I enjoy meeting new people and would give the shirt off my back to anyone that asked. In game I am more of a behind the scene type of person. that doesnt try to be noticed but will push other people to thier limiits. in previous tales I Ran the SPAM mic to help all of evypt get rid of random advertisements that pop up on channels like l2pbs-

Dreasimy: Thank you both :D

Dreasimy: If you win this election you will pass the test of the Demi-Pharaoh and be our 3rd DP of this tale. There are a variety of points of view on what the role of DP should and shouldn't be, what is yours?

Ariella: Thru the tales I've seen the role described as many things. It's been called a popularity contest and I have to agree somewhat because it's hard to know what someone will do if you don't know them. It has ban power and we've seen that abused, but infrequently. So a role? Mostly as a mediator if really nasty stuff comes up between players. And as a more visible help to players. Because passing another Leadership test lets you carry an extra petition it's a way to add to the game too.

Ariella: What it shouldn't be? A promotion of narcissim. A way to have power over other players. But honestly, most DPs are good, helpful players and there's so many that would be that way. We do go through levels that help get good candidates.

Lazybum: I think a DP should lead by example. and while we have had some good DP's and some mediocore ones in this tale and tales previous. I dont believe there has ever been a fantastic one. Why would one vote for someone other than the proven ability of thier leadership abilities. I belive that egypt needa a DP that will use his powers to run the people instead of gently hovering over them . We need a DP that will get people moving and working together for the good of all egypt.

Lazybum: What a DP shouldnt do? Scare away potential players and use thier power to corrupt other players into thier skewed view of a perfect egypt...

Dreasimy: Thank you both :)

Dreasimy: We received a question from an anonymous listener, specifically for Ariella, which I am going to follow up with a related, more general question that both candidates can answer:

Dreasimy: Anonymous: For Ariella: You were a DP in the past (at least T4) and it appeared that you never were willing to step into the conflicts which DP's are supposed to help mediate. Why should you be elected again if you've demonstrated an unwillingness to do the job (as the Community has defined the job)?

Dreasimy: Both candidates: Have you been involved in resolving conflicts in ATITD and/or real life? Can you give any specific examples of how you have helped mediate a situation between two parties who could not see eye to eye?

Ariella: First, it would be nice to know who asked that question? I did not join the DP guild when I was DP. I did however step into conflicts between players when asked and helped mediate peaceful solutions. At the time I was DP I did not enjoy some of the talk I had heard about that put down other players and promoted a higher view of DPs in general. That's not my style. I did demostrate quite well that I would help with conflicts and trust me I've seen many conflicts as an employer too. I keep my cool and listen. But I do not enjoy promoting myself as any higher than any other player.

Ariella: The talk I heard about in the DP guild is what I meant. Someone had copied and pasted examples. Anyone was free to ask me to help and other DPs did that. I responded.

Lazybum: I have always had problems seeing "eye to eye" with most people and i find that if i carry a steping stool around with me and let them use it then it is easier to communicate with them as im a bit taller than most people and it will give them a diffrent view of the world around them as I see it. It is easier to deal with problems in real life than it is in atitd because if someone is stubborn in game can not accually get them to listen to you if they dont want to all they have to do is /logout . So to help people that dont see eye to eye in a game i would find the person within the group that is more reasonable and find ther limitations then befreiend the stubborn one as a friend even if that means lying to them o.

Baldur: follow up to Lazybum, I'm not sure you meant it that way, but do you not think your answer makes it look like you are looking down on people? ragardless of physical hight

Nchanter: Follow up to Lazybum... I'm sorry, did you just say that you think it's ok to Lie to people to make them think you're their friend, just to resolve a conflict? Or did I read that wrong. If I read that wrong, can you please rephrase?

Lazybum: Ariella. While I think the person who asked that question was the reporter in the back row, 3rd to the right with the blue shirt on. I have played with you since we both began and even before you were a dp I have noticed your personal prefrence to stay out of Personal conflicts between individuals. It just really isnt you . But I have noticed you have been Involved in problematic situations that would spread throughout egypt if not dealt with. and for that I applaud you... I neither would want to deal with personal problems of couple arguing who should get what over a divorce.

Ariella: Whether as DP or not I have spent a decent amount of time explaining what has sometimes seemed to be conflicts and what was definitely conflicts. There have been times I go directly to the owner of the game or point others how to do that if there are truly concerns. A specific example when I was DP I was asked to mediate between some griefing between two players. I won't name the players. I talked to both as did a couple other DPs. Both players calmed down and as far as I know did not continue the griefing. Eventually one stopped playing. One was a friend of mine, and one I did not know. I was very honest and direct with my friend. She responded and changed what she was doing. I had no idea at the time if it would make her angry but harming other players in retaliation is not okay.

Lazybum: Yes I said its ok to lie and be deievious to certian individuals... doesnt have to be a lie but to leave out truths to befriend some people... as long as you can mold yourself to thier needs in the begining then can ease the truth to them slower at thier own speed.

Lazybum: and for baldur I do not mean it in a physical sort of way even though yes i am very tall. I also do not mean it as looking down on egypt.... What it is meant to mean is offering people a diffrent perspective on givien situations.

Ariella: As far as in real life I've had three decades of answering complaints, fielding problems between employees and employees and customers and following up on complaints. Staying calm and listening to all sides, being patient and caring to have the best outcome has solved almost all problems. I had one customer shouting at me on the phone and swearing at me. I stayed calm and kept asking questions. They slammed the phone down. Then 5 minutes later called back and apologized. As it turned out a different company had come along and cleaned badly. They thought it was our company. I couldn't tell you how many times most conflicts are really misunderstandings.

Dreasimy: Ok thanks for the follow ups Egypt and the thorough answers candidates :) We are going to move on now

Dreasimy: We have another listener question, for a specific candidate (Lazybum) but again Ill follow up with a more general question that Ariella can answer as well.

Dreasimy: Nchanter: Question for Lazybum: you are VERY vocal about your anti-macro stance, and give the impression that anyone who macros, afk macros (which is most assuredly not the case for the majority of egyptians that use macros). Will you promise, right now, logged for everyone to see, that you will not ban anyone that you believe might be AFK macroing, and instead will do the proper thing, and report them to a GM?

Dreasimy: Although that question was directly for Lazybum due to his specific concern about the issue. I'd like Ariella to chime in on the topic as well. Ariella do you concur that the proper thing for everyone, including DPs to do when they suspect someone might be AFK macroing is to report them to a GM?

Lazybum: I Believe that anyone breaking the general TOS - which includes AFK macroing - To be reported to a gm as it is just not allowed. I have sent in over 50 reports for afk macroing and other such things that break the TOS.

Lazybum: And no. I will not use my bans to Ban Afk macro'rs because whie I dislike Afk macro'rs I cannot be for sure they are afk macroing and are accually doing stuff with chat minimized. Anything that breaks TOS is handed over to GM's . I will be using my bans to enforce the egyptian made rules now and in the future of pending bills.

Ariella: On that subject I'll ask this to all the players in atitd? How many times have you suspected someone is afk on a macro? I'm going to guess almost everyone has suspected at least one. How many reports to devs would that be? How many reports to devs get answered? How many of us have reported that very thing in the beginning of our play, being good honest citizens only to learn after awhile that there are reasons that look like afk macroing. And that often it is in reality extremely difficult to tell. Do I want to be a tattletale? No. Would I report a legitimate afk macroer? Yes if I also spoke to the player first and they could care less if they macro.

Ariella: Afk macroing definitely hurts the game. I don't want the game hurt or other players hurt.

Lazybum: I am not agianst macro's as i Macro all the time aswell.

Ariella: Banning afk macroers is the domain of the owner of the game and anyone else he direts to take care of that matter.

Dreasimy: Thank you both for your thoughtful answers, moving on now

Dreasimy: Nchanter: Question for Ariella: You encouraged people to start donating their Sea Lily Bulbs for Crossbreeding to 7L research, after a substantial effort had already been made and donated to OE. This rift in donations is delaying the opening of Crossbreeding for everyone to utilize. Why did you choose to actively encourage donations in a 2nd region instead of working with others in such a way to make it available to everyone sooner?

Dreasimy: And I would like to reframe that topic to include Lazybum on it, Lazybum, do you have anything you would like to say on the subject of how you decide where to donate your research materials?

Ariella: NChanter. Easy question. 7L was the first region to have crossbreeding open as far as I know. So I promoted it. I learned later that OE also had it open. I have told all players chatting me that this is a game and to donate to whichever they want. In actuality I will be donating to OE as it is further along. It's been a debated topic as long as I've been playing on whether to tell players where to donate. This is a GAME. It is to be FUN. :) The player decides. Take a current look at both OE and 7L Crossbreeding UThought. You'll see that Energy is finished or near finished on both. Only two bulbs of the other crossbreeding bulbs (last I looked) went into 7L Crossbreeding. I don't know who put them there. I will shortly have 16 of each to donate which will go to OE.

Ariella: Further, I know from experience that we need to open each region's xbreeding to get to each Mutagenics and each region is important. Almost always enough bulbs seem to simultaneously be ready for xbreeding within days for more than one region to open. I have heard comment after comment about this tale not going on at breakneck speed so that those players who can't be on 24/7 like some are that techs move more slowly. That also goes for newbies too. Anyone that knows me knows I use my time and efforst to almost nothing but ehlping on techs so that the game is the most enjoyable for the most people. Thanks for asking that question NChanter :)

Dreasimy: Sorry folks Lazybum disconnected there for a bit

Lazybum: Sorry, My meditation was broken and lost my connection from this realm.... So yes it is true I Come from a place far away and am just here to abduct your sheep... I donate my mats to My home region/s.

Dreasimy: Anonymous: To Lazybum: in previous tellings, you have been known to take the summer off from playing ATITD. Will this be the case during this tale? Will you actually be available to perform your duties on a consistent basis?

Dreasimy: Reframed version of this question that all candidates can answer! :D DPs notoriously catch DP disease after becoming DP, disappearing for long periods at a time... it's very mysterious, what do you think causes this condition? Do you feel you are immune? How so?

Lazybum: Well it seems as if tales these days are getting shorter and shorter.... I Have prepaid for a year so I wont be tempted by those nice beaches that dont have wifi anymore.

Ariella: Absentidus DPitus. A known bacteria that infects your ability to play in atitd. Some have natural immunities. A little more seriously...some DPs have had legitimate real life reasons like health, financial issues, family issues that definitely trump the game. Since I've played every tale except 1 I would think that my history is pretty good. I like the game. Could you tell? Short of more important rl issues I will keep playing. I've also prepaid for a year.

Dreasimy: Thank you, moving on! :D

Dreasimy: Can you explain how you have handled or might handle a situation when it becomes clear, publicly, that you are wrong?

Ariella: I've been wrong at work, in my personal life and in game at some point or another. Just say it. I figure wrong is just learning right or better.

Lazybum: The only time I am wrong is by pure ignorance of the situation.. I will still attemt to answer questions in the best of my ability and will debate my answer untill otherwise proven to be something else. I do have a problem with coming up with random theories - some true - some fabricated by my twisted mind. that seem to work for me but might not work for other people. If proven wrong I will continue my search for the correct answer and take my my wrong answer gracefully away.

Dreasimy: Often disagreements in ATITD come from miscommunication, miscommunication can be battled by discussion but sometimes discussion can become heated. Are you in favor of free speech? Do you have an opinion on whether or not discussion should be censored when it gets heated (but not offensive)?

Lazybum: CENSORSHIP IS WRONG. I believe that everyone has the right to voice thier opinion.

Ariella: I've modded for the egypt channel. Heated discussions can go on a long time and we all enjoy that immensely...or not depending on personality. The policy has been to let it go thru as long as it's not nasty or offensive. Seems like it's been a good way to balance censureship vs letting absolutely anything go. Free speech is a given. A break of some other topic for awhile ain't a bad idea either in the heated topics. Can always start it up again until it peters out. And there's been a lot of neat conclusions come out of those. Yep, free speech is good.

Dreasimy: Under what types of circumstances do you believe DP's should use permanent bans? If you are versed in ATITD lore, feel free to give an example from a previous tale where you agreed or disagreed with a ban, if you can't give examples from the past feel free to just discuss the merits of certain situations over others.

Lazybum: In tale 2. Ariella's husband deserved to get banned for his actions of tearing down a very popular guild hall full of awesome people.

tripps: Follow up for both: Please tell us more about what happened with that guildhall in T2 and why you feel he should or should not have been banned.

Ariella: Specific example with my own Tale 2 hubby. He came onto personal severe rl problems and took it out on atitd as lazybum said. I talked to him, friends talked to him, DPs talked to him. One DP said he would ban him. I said not yet. Hubby told some to f-off and told egypt he would grief every way possible. I felt very sorry for him, but his intention was to continue. He also said he wanted to be banned. Most voiced they wanted him banned. He was banned. In that circumstance I would ban. History of atitd shows good sense from most players. Listen and make the best judgement. Banning is rare and should be.

Lazybum: ./me points up and nods

Dreasimy: Does anyone have any further questions? We are approaching the 2 hour mark so I would like to think about dialing it down soon :D But if you have questions please submit them now or hold your peace (for this debate) :D

Bryce: what test would you get rid of, and which test would you bring back, and why?

Lazybum: I would get rid of DP as a test because its just a silly popularity contest as mentioned above... also Harmony- all the tests in Harmony. and bring conflict back

Lazybum: WHY because harmony tests are just silly im going to sit here and play around and hope to pass one day. while conflict you accually had to go out and work for . use your mind to achieve victory over your opponnneets or. in the case of many people now days thier wallets to beat thier mules.

Ariella: Personal view? Some leadership tests (ironically given this debate) are not a challenge to creativity. Do it long enough and you pass. Others, try as hard as you can and there is no way to pass. A general answer I know. I would personally like to see a whole new line of tests that use more creativity. I have some ideas but will atitd continue? Others have had great ideas. I'd like to see teppy come back and have hour long sessions like he used to at least every so often and listen again to our ideas. I think that would be best.

Avanya: Does anyone have access to login to your account? (ie, would any person other than yourself ever have access to your ban powers)?

Lazybum: Besides my spouse via spouse log . No.

Ariella: Only my hubby can log in to my account, Pascalito who has also bee a DP. He is also my rl hubby not someone I do not know where they live. I'd like to add that since my hubby can speak many languages it's kinda useful in conflicts between players in case I need an interpretor.

Dreasimy: Anonymous: since DP is the second leadership test to open up how do the current candidates feel about its fairness to older players versus newer players?

Lazybum: Multiple languages... I think everyone should speak the same language here... Egyptian... =D

Ariella: When I was a newbie I thought it a bit unfair. Pascalito actually proved a newbie could be a DP. Older players have a better knowledge of the game and can definitely answer questions easier. An older player has a history of...being an older player and probably staying in game. Newer players wanting to pass DP? It's possible but it will take more work than an older player. But as Pascalito proved good works with other players and figuring out the game can make it happen. I think it's more fair than I did when I was newer. I think it could be replaced by a better test too.

Lazybum: I would assume it would be easier to trust an older player vs a newer player as the older players are more familiar with how egypt works but also have a history behind them that can be used for and agianst them. new players on the other hand have to work harder to get known for people to vote for them.

Ariella: I do think it is not fair for those who do not speak english well. But it is a small game and that's a hard one to make better.

Dreasimy: Ariella just addressed part of this question already:

Dreasimy: Sabina: given that a large percentage of people playing this game speak english, how fair are is this test on non english speakers in the game and should DPs be selected with timezones in mind - 24/7 DP coverage of game?

Ariella: Actually, that might be a good way to improve DP. Have options to be in a certain language or maybe even a newbie group and allow multiple DPs or have more DP elections for those groups. It might be good for us older/only english speaking players to see what they go thru when we can't understand their debates but have to vote.

Dreasimy: (I'll point out that I think every debate that has had a non english speaker has had a translator for it for the record)

Ariella: And multiple DPs would better cover timezones and conflicts like Sabina said.

Lazybum: This is not the way I would have this test run. If i could change it i would. and it would be per region - with a time limit on each person . and would be given 2 seasons to do thier duty.. voting would take place by region for thier regional dp's much like hegimon .

Ariella: I've heard Pascalito remark that the translations aren't always easy to follow for the foreigners.

Rabble: Did someone actually ask *why* any sane person would ever want to be DP?

Dreasimy: Now someone did!

Dreasimy: I'd like each of you to wrap up now and tell Egypt what they will get in a DP by voting for you. And if you do indeed want them to vote for you, please include why you'd like them to.

Ariella: I do wonder why ;) Personally, if others think that I can help in that way I will. I also think being able to add one more good idea to egypt is worth it in the form of a petition which I certainly have and will do again.

Lazybum: If you vote for me I will give everyone ponies.

Ariella: I don't like campaigning. I will say I want to run currently in case you think I can help the game and other players. (I think lazy won't give ponies...just for the record ;) Feel free to chat me :) Whether I'm DP or candidate or just me :)

Lazybum: i will too give ponies .... you calling me a liar. YOYO"s know how to have ponies

Ariella: Then someone has been withholding ponies? You know blondie will not like that...

Lazybum: all you have to do is msg me for a pony if i win and ill put it where you want it.

Dreasimy: With that this debate is done! It is toast! It is in the can! Thank you Lazybum and Ariella! Thank you to all the questioners! Thank you listeners! Thank you traders for giving up Bazaar! I return you now to your regularly scheduled Bazaarness!

Debate #2 Chet, oDiS, & Sabina
Tuesday March 20th at 10pm Pacific Time (US)
Wednesday March 21st at 05:00 UTC