Demipharaoh Debates/2012 03 20

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This election has candidates from 3 different continents which makes it difficult to get all 5 together at once due to various scheduling conflicts. Due to these circumstances, we have two debate times scheduled.

Election 3 Ariella, Chet, Lazybum, oDiS, Sabina March 22 2012

Demi-Pharaoh results from 268 voters:

F:Ariella (44.32)
M:oDiS (43.22)
F:Chet (34.15)
F:Sabina (28.37)
M:Lazybum (19.84)

March 20, 2012 Debate #1 Ariella & Lazybum

Dreasimy: Welcome to the 1st Debate in the 3rd Election for Demi-Pharaoh of the 6th Tale of ATITD! For the duration of the debate trade posts on Bazaar will be halted (you can use L2PBS for this purpose during this period) and only debate-appropriate posts will be let through. Our candidates for this debate are Ariella and Lazybum! In 8 hours, the 2nd debate will be held which will host Chet, oDiS, and Sabina.

Dreasimy: If you have questions that you would like to submit during the debate, just submit them to Bazaar or via Chat to Dreasimy but please note that comments, discussion, personal attacks, and redundant questions will be tabled or asked to be rephrased. Also, I will do my best to also reframe any candidate-specific questions so that any candidate can answer them (tho your original question will remain in tact for the person you specified.)

Dreasimy: For those who have never had the opportunity to interact with you before can you share a little about yourself and/or what you enjoy about ATITD and how long you've been playing?

Dreasimy: (Oops sorry since we started 1 hour late, the next debate is actually in 7 hours not 8 as I stated above)

Ariella: Okay, here goes. I've been playing atitd since day 1 of Tale 2. In real life I run a couple of S corps where my guys make windows nice and clean to let the sun in. Our company also does the hanging thing on high rise. I love flowers in real life! I also am a master woodworker and enjoy making a variety of wood art including classical guitars. I don't like to cook except for desserts. Thankfully, hubby does like to and in game loves making recipes.

Ariella: I think most know that I enjoy making guides. I love the game and think it's totally unique and want to support it in whatever way I can. My little wish for a learning channel came true this tale thanks to Bessodia :) And the most fun has been meeting so many people in game...including my real life hubby, Pascalito :)

Lazybum: Hello, I am Lazybum, accually a totally ironic name as I am far from lazy, I started playing day 1 of of Tale2. In real life I am a jack of all trades, I bartend, build and program computers, an electrictiian, sales man, weilder, make quilts and do other various things with fabric.I enjoy meeting new people and would give the shirt off my back to anyone that asked. In game I am more of a behind the scene type of person. that doesnt try to be noticed but will push other people to thier limiits. in previous tales I Ran the SPAM mic to help all of evypt get rid of random advertisements that pop up on channels like l2pbs-

Dreasimy: Thank you both :D

Dreasimy: If you win this election you will pass the test of the Demi-Pharaoh and be our 3rd DP of this tale. There are a variety of points of view on what the role of DP should and shouldn't be, what is yours?

Ariella: Thru the tales I've seen the role described as many things. It's been called a popularity contest and I have to agree somewhat because it's hard to know what someone will do if you don't know them. It has ban power and we've seen that abused, but infrequently. So a role? Mostly as a mediator if really nasty stuff comes up between players. And as a more visible help to players. Because passing another Leadership test lets you carry an extra petition it's a way to add to the game too.

Ariella: What it shouldn't be? A promotion of narcissim. A way to have power over other players. But honestly, most DPs are good, helpful players and there's so many that would be that way. We do go through levels that help get good candidates.

Lazybum: I think a DP should lead by example. and while we have had some good DP's and some mediocore ones in this tale and tales previous. I dont believe there has ever been a fantastic one. Why would one vote for someone other than the proven ability of thier leadership abilities. I belive that egypt needa a DP that will use his powers to run the people instead of gently hovering over them . We need a DP that will get people moving and working together for the good of all egypt.

Lazybum: What a DP shouldnt do? Scare away potential players and use thier power to corrupt other players into thier skewed view of a perfect egypt...

Dreasimy: Thank you both :)

Dreasimy: We received a question from an anonymous listener, specifically for Ariella, which I am going to follow up with a related, more general question that both candidates can answer:

Dreasimy: Anonymous: For Ariella: You were a DP in the past (at least T4) and it appeared that you never were willing to step into the conflicts which DP's are supposed to help mediate. Why should you be elected again if you've demonstrated an unwillingness to do the job (as the Community has defined the job)?

Dreasimy: Both candidates: Have you been involved in resolving conflicts in ATITD and/or real life? Can you give any specific examples of how you have helped mediate a situation between two parties who could not see eye to eye?

Ariella: First, it would be nice to know who asked that question? I did not join the DP guild when I was DP. I did however step into conflicts between players when asked and helped mediate peaceful solutions. At the time I was DP I did not enjoy some of the talk I had heard about that put down other players and promoted a higher view of DPs in general. That's not my style. I did demostrate quite well that I would help with conflicts and trust me I've seen many conflicts as an employer too. I keep my cool and listen. But I do not enjoy promoting myself as any higher than any other player.

Ariella: The talk I heard about in the DP guild is what I meant. Someone had copied and pasted examples. Anyone was free to ask me to help and other DPs did that. I responded.

Lazybum: I have always had problems seeing "eye to eye" with most people and i find that if i carry a steping stool around with me and let them use it then it is easier to communicate with them as im a bit taller than most people and it will give them a diffrent view of the world around them as I see it. It is easier to deal with problems in real life than it is in atitd because if someone is stubborn in game can not accually get them to listen to you if they dont want to all they have to do is /logout . So to help people that dont see eye to eye in a game i would find the person within the group that is more reasonable and find ther limitations then befreiend the stubborn one as a friend even if that means lying to them o.

Baldur: follow up to Lazybum, I'm not sure you meant it that way, but do you not think your answer makes it look like you are looking down on people? ragardless of physical hight

Nchanter: Follow up to Lazybum... I'm sorry, did you just say that you think it's ok to Lie to people to make them think you're their friend, just to resolve a conflict? Or did I read that wrong. If I read that wrong, can you please rephrase?

Lazybum: Ariella. While I think the person who asked that question was the reporter in the back row, 3rd to the right with the blue shirt on. I have played with you since we both began and even before you were a dp I have noticed your personal prefrence to stay out of Personal conflicts between individuals. It just really isnt you . But I have noticed you have been Involved in problematic situations that would spread throughout egypt if not dealt with. and for that I applaud you... I neither would want to deal with personal problems of couple arguing who should get what over a divorce.

Ariella: Whether as DP or not I have spent a decent amount of time explaining what has sometimes seemed to be conflicts and what was definitely conflicts. There have been times I go directly to the owner of the game or point others how to do that if there are truly concerns. A specific example when I was DP I was asked to mediate between some griefing between two players. I won't name the players. I talked to both as did a couple other DPs. Both players calmed down and as far as I know did not continue the griefing. Eventually one stopped playing. One was a friend of mine, and one I did not know. I was very honest and direct with my friend. She responded and changed what she was doing. I had no idea at the time if it would make her angry but harming other players in retaliation is not okay.

Lazybum: Yes I said its ok to lie and be deievious to certian individuals... doesnt have to be a lie but to leave out truths to befriend some people... as long as you can mold yourself to thier needs in the begining then can ease the truth to them slower at thier own speed.

Lazybum: and for baldur I do not mean it in a physical sort of way even though yes i am very tall. I also do not mean it as looking down on egypt.... What it is meant to mean is offering people a diffrent perspective on givien situations.

Ariella: As far as in real life I've had three decades of answering complaints, fielding problems between employees and employees and customers and following up on complaints. Staying calm and listening to all sides, being patient and caring to have the best outcome has solved almost all problems. I had one customer shouting at me on the phone and swearing at me. I stayed calm and kept asking questions. They slammed the phone down. Then 5 minutes later called back and apologized. As it turned out a different company had come along and cleaned badly. They thought it was our company. I couldn't tell you how many times most conflicts are really misunderstandings.

Dreasimy: Ok thanks for the follow ups Egypt and the thorough answers candidates :) We are going to move on now

Dreasimy: We have another listener question, for a specific candidate (Lazybum) but again Ill follow up with a more general question that Ariella can answer as well.

Dreasimy: Nchanter: Question for Lazybum: you are VERY vocal about your anti-macro stance, and give the impression that anyone who macros, afk macros (which is most assuredly not the case for the majority of egyptians that use macros). Will you promise, right now, logged for everyone to see, that you will not ban anyone that you believe might be AFK macroing, and instead will do the proper thing, and report them to a GM?

Dreasimy: Although that question was directly for Lazybum due to his specific concern about the issue. I'd like Ariella to chime in on the topic as well. Ariella do you concur that the proper thing for everyone, including DPs to do when they suspect someone might be AFK macroing is to report them to a GM?

Lazybum: I Believe that anyone breaking the general TOS - which includes AFK macroing - To be reported to a gm as it is just not allowed. I have sent in over 50 reports for afk macroing and other such things that break the TOS.

Lazybum: And no. I will not use my bans to Ban Afk macro'rs because whie I dislike Afk macro'rs I cannot be for sure they are afk macroing and are accually doing stuff with chat minimized. Anything that breaks TOS is handed over to GM's . I will be using my bans to enforce the egyptian made rules now and in the future of pending bills.

Ariella: On that subject I'll ask this to all the players in atitd? How many times have you suspected someone is afk on a macro? I'm going to guess almost everyone has suspected at least one. How many reports to devs would that be? How many reports to devs get answered? How many of us have reported that very thing in the beginning of our play, being good honest citizens only to learn after awhile that there are reasons that look like afk macroing. And that often it is in reality extremely difficult to tell. Do I want to be a tattletale? No. Would I report a legitimate afk macroer? Yes if I also spoke to the player first and they could care less if they macro.

Ariella: Afk macroing definitely hurts the game. I don't want the game hurt or other players hurt.

Lazybum: I am not agianst macro's as i Macro all the time aswell.

Ariella: Banning afk macroers is the domain of the owner of the game and anyone else he direts to take care of that matter.

Dreasimy: Thank you both for your thoughtful answers, moving on now

Dreasimy: Nchanter: Question for Ariella: You encouraged people to start donating their Sea Lily Bulbs for Crossbreeding to 7L research, after a substantial effort had already been made and donated to OE. This rift in donations is delaying the opening of Crossbreeding for everyone to utilize. Why did you choose to actively encourage donations in a 2nd region instead of working with others in such a way to make it available to everyone sooner?

Dreasimy: And I would like to reframe that topic to include Lazybum on it, Lazybum, do you have anything you would like to say on the subject of how you decide where to donate your research materials?

Ariella: NChanter. Easy question. 7L was the first region to have crossbreeding open as far as I know. So I promoted it. I learned later that OE also had it open. I have told all players chatting me that this is a game and to donate to whichever they want. In actuality I will be donating to OE as it is further along. It's been a debated topic as long as I've been playing on whether to tell players where to donate. This is a GAME. It is to be FUN. :) The player decides. Take a current look at both OE and 7L Crossbreeding UThought. You'll see that Energy is finished or near finished on both. Only two bulbs of the other crossbreeding bulbs (last I looked) went into 7L Crossbreeding. I don't know who put them there. I will shortly have 16 of each to donate which will go to OE.

Ariella: Further, I know from experience that we need to open each region's xbreeding to get to each Mutagenics and each region is important. Almost always enough bulbs seem to simultaneously be ready for xbreeding within days for more than one region to open. I have heard comment after comment about this tale not going on at breakneck speed so that those players who can't be on 24/7 like some are that techs move more slowly. That also goes for newbies too. Anyone that knows me knows I use my time and efforst to almost nothing but ehlping on techs so that the game is the most enjoyable for the most people. Thanks for asking that question NChanter :)

Dreasimy: Sorry folks Lazybum disconnected there for a bit

Lazybum: Sorry, My meditation was broken and lost my connection from this realm.... So yes it is true I Come from a place far away and am just here to abduct your sheep... I donate my mats to My home region/s.

Dreasimy: Anonymous: To Lazybum: in previous tellings, you have been known to take the summer off from playing ATITD. Will this be the case during this tale? Will you actually be available to perform your duties on a consistent basis?

Dreasimy: Reframed version of this question that all candidates can answer! :D DPs notoriously catch DP disease after becoming DP, disappearing for long periods at a time... it's very mysterious, what do you think causes this condition? Do you feel you are immune? How so?

Lazybum: Well it seems as if tales these days are getting shorter and shorter.... I Have prepaid for a year so I wont be tempted by those nice beaches that dont have wifi anymore.

Ariella: Absentidus DPitus. A known bacteria that infects your ability to play in atitd. Some have natural immunities. A little more seriously...some DPs have had legitimate real life reasons like health, financial issues, family issues that definitely trump the game. Since I've played every tale except 1 I would think that my history is pretty good. I like the game. Could you tell? Short of more important rl issues I will keep playing. I've also prepaid for a year.

Dreasimy: Thank you, moving on! :D

Dreasimy: Can you explain how you have handled or might handle a situation when it becomes clear, publicly, that you are wrong?

Ariella: I've been wrong at work, in my personal life and in game at some point or another. Just say it. I figure wrong is just learning right or better.

Lazybum: The only time I am wrong is by pure ignorance of the situation.. I will still attemt to answer questions in the best of my ability and will debate my answer untill otherwise proven to be something else. I do have a problem with coming up with random theories - some true - some fabricated by my twisted mind. that seem to work for me but might not work for other people. If proven wrong I will continue my search for the correct answer and take my my wrong answer gracefully away.

Dreasimy: Often disagreements in ATITD come from miscommunication, miscommunication can be battled by discussion but sometimes discussion can become heated. Are you in favor of free speech? Do you have an opinion on whether or not discussion should be censored when it gets heated (but not offensive)?

Lazybum: CENSORSHIP IS WRONG. I believe that everyone has the right to voice thier opinion.

Ariella: I've modded for the egypt channel. Heated discussions can go on a long time and we all enjoy that immensely...or not depending on personality. The policy has been to let it go thru as long as it's not nasty or offensive. Seems like it's been a good way to balance censureship vs letting absolutely anything go. Free speech is a given. A break of some other topic for awhile ain't a bad idea either in the heated topics. Can always start it up again until it peters out. And there's been a lot of neat conclusions come out of those. Yep, free speech is good.

Dreasimy: Under what types of circumstances do you believe DP's should use permanent bans? If you are versed in ATITD lore, feel free to give an example from a previous tale where you agreed or disagreed with a ban, if you can't give examples from the past feel free to just discuss the merits of certain situations over others.

Lazybum: In tale 2. Ariella's husband deserved to get banned for his actions of tearing down a very popular guild hall full of awesome people.

tripps: Follow up for both: Please tell us more about what happened with that guildhall in T2 and why you feel he should or should not have been banned.

Ariella: Specific example with my own Tale 2 hubby. He came onto personal severe rl problems and took it out on atitd as lazybum said. I talked to him, friends talked to him, DPs talked to him. One DP said he would ban him. I said not yet. Hubby told some to f-off and told egypt he would grief every way possible. I felt very sorry for him, but his intention was to continue. He also said he wanted to be banned. Most voiced they wanted him banned. He was banned. In that circumstance I would ban. History of atitd shows good sense from most players. Listen and make the best judgement. Banning is rare and should be.

Lazybum: ./me points up and nods

Dreasimy: Does anyone have any further questions? We are approaching the 2 hour mark so I would like to think about dialing it down soon :D But if you have questions please submit them now or hold your peace (for this debate) :D

Bryce: what test would you get rid of, and which test would you bring back, and why?

Lazybum: I would get rid of DP as a test because its just a silly popularity contest as mentioned above... also Harmony- all the tests in Harmony. and bring conflict back

Lazybum: WHY because harmony tests are just silly im going to sit here and play around and hope to pass one day. while conflict you accually had to go out and work for . use your mind to achieve victory over your opponnneets or. in the case of many people now days thier wallets to beat thier mules.

Ariella: Personal view? Some leadership tests (ironically given this debate) are not a challenge to creativity. Do it long enough and you pass. Others, try as hard as you can and there is no way to pass. A general answer I know. I would personally like to see a whole new line of tests that use more creativity. I have some ideas but will atitd continue? Others have had great ideas. I'd like to see teppy come back and have hour long sessions like he used to at least every so often and listen again to our ideas. I think that would be best.

Avanya: Does anyone have access to login to your account? (ie, would any person other than yourself ever have access to your ban powers)?

Lazybum: Besides my spouse via spouse log . No.

Ariella: Only my hubby can log in to my account, Pascalito who has also bee a DP. He is also my rl hubby not someone I do not know where they live. I'd like to add that since my hubby can speak many languages it's kinda useful in conflicts between players in case I need an interpretor.

Dreasimy: Anonymous: since DP is the second leadership test to open up how do the current candidates feel about its fairness to older players versus newer players?

Lazybum: Multiple languages... I think everyone should speak the same language here... Egyptian... =D

Ariella: When I was a newbie I thought it a bit unfair. Pascalito actually proved a newbie could be a DP. Older players have a better knowledge of the game and can definitely answer questions easier. An older player has a history of...being an older player and probably staying in game. Newer players wanting to pass DP? It's possible but it will take more work than an older player. But as Pascalito proved good works with other players and figuring out the game can make it happen. I think it's more fair than I did when I was newer. I think it could be replaced by a better test too.

Lazybum: I would assume it would be easier to trust an older player vs a newer player as the older players are more familiar with how egypt works but also have a history behind them that can be used for and agianst them. new players on the other hand have to work harder to get known for people to vote for them.

Ariella: I do think it is not fair for those who do not speak english well. But it is a small game and that's a hard one to make better.

Dreasimy: Ariella just addressed part of this question already:

Dreasimy: Sabina: given that a large percentage of people playing this game speak english, how fair are is this test on non english speakers in the game and should DPs be selected with timezones in mind - 24/7 DP coverage of game?

Ariella: Actually, that might be a good way to improve DP. Have options to be in a certain language or maybe even a newbie group and allow multiple DPs or have more DP elections for those groups. It might be good for us older/only english speaking players to see what they go thru when we can't understand their debates but have to vote.

Dreasimy: (I'll point out that I think every debate that has had a non english speaker has had a translator for it for the record)

Ariella: And multiple DPs would better cover timezones and conflicts like Sabina said.

Lazybum: This is not the way I would have this test run. If i could change it i would. and it would be per region - with a time limit on each person . and would be given 2 seasons to do thier duty.. voting would take place by region for thier regional dp's much like hegimon .

Ariella: I've heard Pascalito remark that the translations aren't always easy to follow for the foreigners.

Rabble: Did someone actually ask *why* any sane person would ever want to be DP?

Dreasimy: Now someone did!

Dreasimy: I'd like each of you to wrap up now and tell Egypt what they will get in a DP by voting for you. And if you do indeed want them to vote for you, please include why you'd like them to.

Ariella: I do wonder why ;) Personally, if others think that I can help in that way I will. I also think being able to add one more good idea to egypt is worth it in the form of a petition which I certainly have and will do again.

Lazybum: If you vote for me I will give everyone ponies.

Ariella: I don't like campaigning. I will say I want to run currently in case you think I can help the game and other players. (I think lazy won't give ponies...just for the record ;) Feel free to chat me :) Whether I'm DP or candidate or just me :)

Lazybum: i will too give ponies .... you calling me a liar. YOYO"s know how to have ponies

Ariella: Then someone has been withholding ponies? You know blondie will not like that...

Lazybum: all you have to do is msg me for a pony if i win and ill put it where you want it.

Dreasimy: With that this debate is done! It is toast! It is in the can! Thank you Lazybum and Ariella! Thank you to all the questioners! Thank you listeners! Thank you traders for giving up Bazaar! I return you now to your regularly scheduled Bazaarness!

March 20, 2012 Debate #2 Chet, oDiS, & Sabina

Debate #2 Chet, oDiS, & Sabina
Tuesday March 20th at 10pm Pacific Time (US)
Wednesday March 21st at 05:00 UTC

Dreasimy: Welcome to the 2nd Debate in the 3rd Election for Demi-Pharaoh of the 6th Tale of ATITD! For the duration of the debate trade posts on Bazaar will be halted (you can use L2PBS for this purpose during this period) and only debate-appropriate posts will be let through. Our candidates for this debate are Chet, oDiS, and Sabina!

Dreasimy: There will likely be some questions submitted by listeners in this debate that obviously won't be able to be answered by the candidates that were at the earlier debate and can't be online for this one. I will make sure that they have a list of those questions and can answer those on the wiki and I'll put a link on the debate log page.

Dreasimy: However for now Lazybum is present and if a new question comes up he may jump in to answer anything that wasn't covered earlier but for now let's get started!

Dreasimy: For those who have never had the opportunity to interact with you before can you share a little about yourself and/or what you enjoy about ATITD and how long you've been playing?

Chet: Hello, I have been playing ATITD since T2, off and on, including the ill fated Bastet. Don't be confused by the handle, I am female both as an avatar and in real life. There are lot of things I enjoy about this game, and a lot that drive me crazy (like dark night) but what keeps me playing is the community. It reminds me of family in many ways, fight and argue then work together to get things done.

oDiS: And I am a male both as an avatar and in real life. I currently head up the cooking research done for this tale. We've taken on more eloborate variables of math to tackle precision in plotting, and done our best to get as much of it done as quickly as possible for Egyptians to cook to the best of their abilities. I also love nonprofit trading. I sell marble, and silk (two things I love to do) with my home guild at 1:1 ratios via time as to how much of the marble I can pull, or silk we can make, and then convert the time it takes to do those tasks, to an even field for what we ask for in return (things we hate to do). I absolutely love helping whomever I can, be it cooking research, going to cook for them, nonprofit trading, or what I've most recently been doing in figuring out the how watermelon growing works and finding and announcing the daily recipe for whichever region I am in when I have time to figure it out. There are a number of things that I do, and these are only a few. To answer the second part of the question though, I started playing in 2006. :)

Sabina: I am fairly new to ATiTD, i played a little in T4, more in T5 and have every intention of playing the whole of this tale - I love this game, I think it is the only game i have played where I get to use myt brain and i am not constantly getting killed all the time. And this has been the greated community i have had the pleasure to play with

Dreasimy: If you win this election you will pass the test of the Demi-Pharaoh and be our 3rd DP of this tale. There are a variety of points of view on what the role of DP should and shouldn't be, what is yours?

Sabina: I have always considered the role of a DP as a sleeping policeman, someone that can watch over the community and really come to the fore when there is a major problem. The DP is not here to lord it over everyone and go ban crazy

Sabina: the hardest part of selecting a DP is to find someone trustworthy, which is very much a hard run for newer players wanting to be a part of this

oDiS: Great question. A DP should be clear, concise, and nonpartial in everything that is put on his/her plate. Being the spearheads, and faces of the ingame leadership the DP's should also be great role models for all incoming new players to the game. A DP should not be self serving, or closed off. A DP should be there to help in every way shape and form.

Chet: With much power there comes much responsibility. The ban stick is a lot of power, real people are on their keyboards behind our little avatars and many take this game very seriously it is therefore important that DP's take it seriously and use that power with as much care and wisdom as possible. Obvious cases like Geodude don't happen often, most disagreements here are more error than malice and things can be worked out, I see it as a duty of the DP to try that first.(and perhaps second and third)

Dreasimy: When we have questions for specific candidates I will then also offer a related but more general version of that question to the other candidates afterwards. First up is an anonymous question for oDiS

Dreasimy: Anonymous: Question for oDiS: It seems like you always have an explination for the way something works, even when it becomes apparent that you don't really have the proper information. Can you please give an example where, in a public discussion, when confronted with information that proved you didn't know what you were talking about, that you either admitted you were wrong, or that you were just speculting? And if not, why not?

Dreasimy: I'd like to ask the other candidates a generalized version of this question: Can you explain how you handle a situation when it becomes clear, publicly, that you are wrong?

oDiS: I'd like to know a reverse example, as when it comes to cooking and things of mathematical natures I work them down into raw algorithms, recheck them, double check teh recheck, and get an 3rd party to recheck the rechecking.

oDiS: However, I can only think of one example that did not come down to the public, but private chats and the good old egyptian rumor mill, and I came to believe a certain rumor to be true due to a plethura of people stating it to be true. I got called out on it, and I immediately apologzied. Which is the adult thing to do.

Sabina: Well I think I have said a couple of things in the main PBS channel that have been completely wrong, I have admitted it and moved on (and remembered what the right thing was)

Chet: OH, dear, I sure screwed that up. What can I do to make it right?

Dreasimy: Thank you all

Dreasimy: Anonymous: I hear so much talk of Geodude but what about the banning that happened last tale, what do you think of those banning where someone with so much involvement in the situation banned without regard of other DP's opinions?

Sabina: I wasnt here for the bannings in the last tale and dont know much about it, but my feeling is that before anyone is banned ALL DPs input should be given. It may not make a difference but my feeling is that it should be discussed

Chet: I skipped T5, playing on Bastet so have no real knowledge of the details of that one. In general a person with personal involvement in things should recuse themselves.

oDiS: Gainign the opinions of other DP's on an issue is extremely vital. You are all elected into a position because you are all trusted members of the community. In such, you shoud, act as a team when and if you can. Although, I do understand certain situations do not permit. I am very glad to see the comeback of a DP guild this tale where all elected officials will at least have the ability to talk amongst one another for situations such as outrageous bannigns that we have seeen in the past where the majority of the community did not approve.

Dreasimy: Nchanter: "Please describe what you consider to be "Greifing" and what actions would cause you to submit someone's name up for exile-by-vote using the Anti-Greifing Act"

Sabina: Most of the griefing I have come across in past games I have played have mainly involved spawn killing, which is not an issue. Geodude is aprime example of griefing for this game - another griefing would perhaps be blowing up stuff when explovises become available

Sabina: I meant to say spawn killing is not an issue in this game sorry

Chet: Griefing can take many forms but I guess deliberate abuse, with malice fits the bill pretty well. For example build a few beehives around someones watermine - that would really stink. And be worthy of the anti-grief act if they refused to tear them down.

Chet: Use of the act tho should be when buildings need to be removed to make things right.

Lazybum: a griefer i would consider anyone that does something to cause annoyance on delebriatly. and I would submit people to the exile vote if one party asked me to and after I investigated the situation to find out why the other person is doing what they are... it might turn out the the first person is accually trying to grief the second person and just using you .

oDiS: Awesome question. It's hard to write it up in the form of words where you can put the definition o to a ballot (we've tried), but I'll take a pot shot at it. Griefing can be defined as the result of harassment via a person who had the sole intent to do so. Be it verbal, or physical. Be it excessive woodplanes and offensive CP's such as Geodude, or exremely innapropriate regional chat like butterfree.

Dreasimy: Have you been involved in resolving conflicts in ATITD and/or real life? Can you give any specific examples of how you have helped mediate a situation between two parties who could not see eye to eye?

Fumen: followup: what about cases of ban evasion (response to chets answer)

Chet: Right Fumen, forgot that one, also a good time to invoke the act. Thank You.

oDiS: May I ask. Define ban evasion?

silver: ban evasion: always logging off when you see a DP approaching, before they get into click range and have time to type the magic word

Fumen: sorry: intentionally avoiding DPs to prevent being banned either by not logging in regularly or staying in opposite ends of Egypt

silver: (could also mean use of waypoints to the same effect). when Kuupid had it in for Geodude, he watched for her being online from a trial account and just never logged in when she was around.

Sabina: I guess an alternative would be to ask for the DP power to be extended to banning someone when they are not online

oDiS: Using waypoints and warps however are not against the rules. Repeatedly logging of whena DP gets nearby however, apparently is.

oDiS: As we did with Geodude in a situation such as that we would have teppy or another head honcho chat the culprit as he did geodude and tell him/her that logging out to evade a ban is against the rules, and if he did it again, teppy would let kuupid ban him without him present. Not those exact words, but it went something like that.

Dreasimy: (whoops, oDiS's last 2 responses were posted out of order by your moderator please shoot her on sight, thank you)

Dreasimy: (they should have been swapped in order)

Dreasimy: Ok now I have their answers to the next question I had asked about resolving conflicts

Sabina: I have not had to solve conflicts in ATiTD, but at various times in my work I have had to deal with conflict, especially as a tax agent at tax time. I cant give any specific examples but I would hear both sides of an issue and get together in a neutral place and see if it can be nutted out with out any one feeling they have been hard done by

Chet: Yes to both. In real life I ran a small company for a while, and I raised 2 children - conflict of one sort or another most days. ah well that life.

Chet: In ATITD I have been asked to help out a few times in early tale when we had no DPs, so far all I have seen is some misunderstandings that could be resolved when people talked it out.

oDiS: Most recently there was an issue in a guild that I am in not that long ago where they were having an issue with missing items and they knew who it was. We were able to work out replacements, and find the cause within a short amount of time. I wish it wasn't so late and that I wasn't having a brain fart right now. There was a much better example that just happened a couple weeks ago but I cannot remember for the life of me. I also constantly have to resolve conflict in my out-of-game job, as it is about 85% of my job. However I'll just leave it at that, I don't feel the need to leverage my real life to seal candidacy.

Dreasimy: Ok we have some follow up questions both for oDiS and they are a cuople questions back

Zaniac: Question for Odis Do you feel that DP's Shoudl participate in the rumor mill with out discussing it with the person that its about or just continue to slander the person to the DP is confronted themself?

oDiS: If a DP (which I am not) believes it to have enough evidence and testimony from "first hand witnesses" that were actually there to be true, and the person in question isn't even around when this all first takes place. It's not slander if you have no way of knowing it is false. But if the time comes where the truth is revealed in whatever way, ti is up to that person to be an adult, and apologise. Even if they did not start the rumor, and also even if they weren;t the one posting it in numerous guilds. It's the way the adult world works. Mistakes happen, you learn from your mistakes, and you apologize.

Dreasimy: Thanks oDiS

Keopec: To Odis, Define exteremly innappropriate. How do you decide? Do you know when you see it or does it take several complaints? How many is several?

Dreasimy: last follow up then moving on

oDiS: Several, by far. That is if you're going to make up some kind of color charted scale with a range from "decent" to "extremely innapropriate" to file your pending cases. But I see no need for that. :P But to be more straight to the question, yes a serious case would need numerous complaints, documented evidence, and the words from all parties to determine the right course of action to remedy the situation.

Dreasimy: Avanya: Does anyone have access to login to your account? (ie, would any person other than yourself ever have access to your ban powers)?

Chet: No

Sabina: Yes someone does have access to my account currently, we have talked about it and i will change my password should i be elected

oDiS: My password is my own. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Dreasimy: Here's a question submitted by one of our candidates, I checked with the committee and it's within the rules

Dreasimy: Sabina: given that a large percentage of people playing this game speak english, how fair are is this test on non english speakers in the game and should DPs be selected with timezones in mind - 24/7 DP coverage of game?

Sabina: FYI I would trust this person with my credit card, but i will still change my password if it is required

Sabina: that question was partially answered at the earlier debate, I didnt realise translators were available for non english speaking people for these debates

Chet: The whole DP system could use some tweaking -imo. These debates look more like conflict than leadership for instance.

Dreasimy: Historically when non-English speaking people have made it to the final ballot they have participated in the debates with a translator but that is not necessarily true in the lower rounds

Sabina: I don think people should be selected just because they are in a certain timezone, although if they were all in the east coast of the US that could be a little awkward at times

oDiS: With the majority of the populous being English speaking, you'd be wrong to even suggest there isn't a disadvantage to the nonfluent English speakers. I do hope one day this does not have to be the case. Just as we currently have certain GM's assigned to certain langueage communities, I hope one day that can happen with DP. Though until that day those GM's are such great help in translations. I thank them every time I send them a chat for accurate translations. They are very patient. :)

Dreasimy: Anonymous: Question for oDiS: You made a statement in PBS that the mods would not be posting on a certian subject, when the mod who actually had control of the board at the time in fact appeared to have no intention of censoring the ongoing discussion (which resulted in fanned, not quenched, flames.) PBS is a public service, and our best and loudest outlet for free speech and Egypt-wide discussion. Why do you favor censoring it?

Dreasimy: For the other candidates: Often disagreements in ATITD come from miscommunication, miscommunication can be battled by discussion but sometimes discussion can become heated. Are you in favor of free speech? Do you have an opinion on whether or not discussion should be censored when it gets heated (but not offensive)?

Sabina: I am in favour of free speech, I have seen some interesting chats in PBS - I think it only needs to be censored for bad language and personal insults

Sabina: and perhaps the moderator might like to step in and try and calm down any flamed situation after all i think they arent just there to put the posts through

Chet: Free Speech all the way! Now that said there are times when a little'time out' is in order to let stuff cool down. People say stuff in the heat of the moment they sure wish later they had not.

oDiS: I'm glad you ask. It was actually the mod with the boards at the time of the post who had actually asked me to be the one to post that. Near verbatim. She just didn't want to get in the middle of it and continue modding. We even said that same day to anyone that asked we had absolutly no intention of deleting posts. Our plan was to slow them down. At that time I was not an elder anyways and I was not the one writing the modding rules. I was just being the voice for the mod at that time, who in fact was an elder.

oDiS: Free speech is what makes the world turn. Of course like any society though things can go over the top from time to time and become a little disorderly. At times, as a microphone moderator as I just answered i the last question (nothing to do with a DP at all) you have to be able to control, or at least attempt to control the madness. Not delete anything, but at least attempt to cool some of it down if it is not being constructive.

Dreasimy: I had a follow up here to ask you what made you think you could speak on behalf of that moderator but I see you say that that moderator asked you to step in so Ill just leave that follow up in the file

Dreasimy: Reframed version of this question that all candidates can answer! :D DPs notoriously catch DP disease after becoming DP, disappearing for long periods at a time... it's very mysterious, what do you think causes this condition? Do you feel you are immune? How so?

Dreasimy: oops I copied an irrelevant phrase (ignore that first phrase)

Chet: It does seem like DPS get scarce, just when you need them. I don't think its the same disease for all, real life gets in the way in all sorts of ways.

Chet: I am sem-retired these days so don't expect to go anywhere, but you never know - life happens.

Sabina: Well I have no idea what would cause this condition, maybe they arent ready for the position, maybe RL gets in the way which none of us have control over - I have no immediate plans to stop playing this game, I am 99.5% sure I will be here for the whole of this tale and maybe more to come

oDiS: DP disease is most likely caused by the sense of accomplishment achieved. They take on a huge task, accomplish it, and then they have nothing else on their plate to fill the void. I currently have items on my plate that I strive to complete but they're projects that will never end until the tale does. And I am dedicated to see that day to come. Also, my real wife who some peple here have been able to meet over skype and/or mumble, loves atitd as my hobby. She'd much rather me be here, than out playing pool every night.

Keopec: Directed at the group, If you are DP what reason can you think of to ban a fellow Egyptian.

Chet: Malice aforethought

Sabina: griefing like Geodude did, some people can be reasoned with, but real concerted grifing needs to be stopped quick smart - and I guess blowing stuff up with explosives would come under that too

oDiS: You should never have to boil down a set of actions and decide that it should result in a permanent ban. Such a harsh verdict shoudl always be discussed with other DP's and possibly even a random assortment of members of the community to gauge opinions. Even in the harsh cases where you know for a fact everyone will give yo the green light. To be fair and just, you must not be brash.

Dreasimy: I think I'll ask a follow up here Sabina, what about people who blow up stuff accidentally, or people who blow up stuff and then are remorseful about it and offer to rebuild (everyone can answer)

oDiS: Exactly why I said you cannot be brash about it. Where there is an action, there is always a cause. If you can get that cause, and a solution in a way other than a ban, especially one that could benefit the community - Take it.

Sabina: now, I was chatting about this the other day and was told that you can accidently blow stuff up - but if that is a possibility, then discussion with the other DPs would definitely be in order before any bans. If it is a once off and they are remorseful and want to make reparation then I think that would still need to be discussed with other DPs - but how many times do you let some one blow something up and rebuild it?

Sabina: It could be, oh sorry that 3was an accident I will fix it, a few days later, oh sorry that was an accident I will fix it

Chet: Making things 'right' goes a long way to mitigate. Geniune remorse would indicate nothing more to worry about. I don't think that would call for a ban.

Sabina: i am sure if i blew something up by accident i would be mortified and want to fix it straight away and never carry explosives again

silver: how could you possibly recognize genuine remorse? or any genuine emotion, through text alone?

Chet: Good point silver, but we use the tools we have. Even face to face with someone it would only be a judgement call.

Sabina: thats a tough one silver and i think they may come with the person that did it, if they are a long established player that has NEVER done anything awful in game they could be given the benefit of the doubt, but with someone like me who hasnt been here so long, that can be tough

oDiS: Actions speak louder than type. Since we're talking about explosives, they can help repair the region they damaged. And maybe out of the remorse they even decide to do something even more grandiose, such as build a new public mine. But that is something the guilty party would decide on their own if they wanted to do something extra, which has happened before. Actions speak very loudly.

Dreasimy: This may seem slightly out of context, but in an effort to ask you all the same questions as my first batch of candidates: do you concur that the proper thing for everyone, including DPs to do when they suspect someone might be AFK macroing is to report them to a GM? i.e. you wouldn't ban first and ask questions later?

Lazybum: As this has happened before in tale3- one person was traveling with explosives to another region and blew up a cs... accident and around the same time another person was going around doing it on purpose

oDiS: Of course, reporting alleged afk macroers to GM's is not only the right thing to do, it is what you are supposed to do.

Sabina: yes, report to a GM first - this game is it hard to work out if someone is macroing or not, some actions dont have any physical movement

Chet: AFK Macroing is a GM issue not a DP one.

Sabina: as a GM in another game I have had to deal with AFK macroers

Dreasimy: Some have taken issue with an active effort seen as splitting efforts between universities on researching key technologies, do you have anything you would like to say on the subject of how you decide where to donate your research materials?

oDiS: I am really liking the break of new research between a handful of regions instead of one region overpowering all the other regions on every single technology.

Sabina: first and foremost my loyalty is to the region I live in, if tech has opened in my region and not in another I am more than happy to donate to other regtions

Sabina: regions*

Chet: I generally donate in my own region, since I live in the sticks that not a lot, mostly to open techs to get to other techs.

Chet: Other than that techs are generally opening faster this tale than I can get there to donate.

Dreasimy: Bryce: what test would you get rid of, and which test would you bring back, and why?

Sabina: I am with Ariella from this morning, I would like to see a complete revamp of the tests and have some great new different ones - I miss swimming

Chet: Dark Night, and DP as a test should got imo. Dark night is really too frustrating. I would bring back Oyster catcher, I loved the swimming

Sabina: i actually didnt like the oyster catcher test all that much, but I very much miss swimming

oDiS: Easy, this one. I am still on the bandwagon that a system set to elect officials shouldn't be a part of a test that people have to do to get pricnciples, advance in a discipline, et cetera. Also, I would bring back Oysters. I loved Lights Out back in the 90's and seeing it here in tale was awesome. I was very sad to see it go.

Dreasimy: Anonymous: since DP is the second leadership test to open up how do the current candidates feel about its fairness to older players versus newer players?

Chet: I stick with the whole DP system needs some work, We need the function but as a test it seems wrong, and if it must be a test leadership seems wrong place –

oDiS: It would be a lie not to say veterans have an advantage. However, rookie players make the ballot all the time, and on occasion win. Not as often as the veterans, but it does happen. My advice to anyone who has started playing within the last year: Keep trying. Never give up on yourself.

Sabina: Well I am with oDiS on this one, I have only really been here since the last 6 months or so of the last tale and I have made it to this far in this tale. I think If you want to make it, old or new player, is to get out there and let people know who you are, this is what leadership is all about

Dreasimy: Rabble: Did someone actually ask *why* any sane person would ever want to be DP?

Dreasimy: And with that question I am going to ask the candidates to please wrap up. Please include anything we didnt cover you want everyone to know and please include *why* you want to be DP (assuming you do indeed want to be.)

Chet: Well of course like everyone else I want to pass the test - why? I have no clue, its what we do here - mostly. I think many of this round candidates would make fine DPs so use your best judgement and vote.

oDiS: You get someone, who is everything but sane, yet stable and reliable. Just as I was talking about before on never giving up, I was in those shoes at one point and time. DP has always been an aspiration of mine, and I have never given up, and never will. I strive to serve the community in every way, shape, and form that I can in order to benefit all. Where I find joy, and my fun in this game is in the community and the work I do to help make it a better place.

Sabina: I would like to be DP, for me becoming DP means that the people in this game trust and respect me. That means a lot to me. I cant offer you ponies, but will still be the generous person I am in 7L - oh and please vote for my beetle in the R3 garden in 7L when it is eventually open ;)

Dreasimy: And..... finally......Ninjas or Pirates?

Sabina: NINJAS!!

Lazybum: Pirates because they are straight forth and dont try to sneak up and stab you in the back

Chet: har har matey

oDiS: I'm so flip floppy on this question, they're both so epic. Ninjas though. I think they might get more women.

Sabina: I liek ninjas, the silent killers – muhahahaha

Sabina: hey that doesnt get put up on the wiki does it? Lol

Dreasimy: Thank you candidates, thank you questioners, named ones and anonymous ones alike. Thank you listeners, and log readers. Thank you voters. Thank you Ninjas and Pirates. And party people. This debate is history! Like a mystery! Peace out!