Demipharaoh Debates/2012 09 05

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Debate scheduled for Saturday Sept 1st at 2:30am GMT/UTC (That is 10:30pm Eastern Time in the US).

Demi-Pharaoh results from 120 voters:

M: Augir 62.22
F: cate 33.20
F: Shiranai 23.01

Debate between cate & Shiranai (Augir, the 3rd candidate, did not participate in the live debate) from August 31st 2012

(Note: Candidates who answered during the live debate have their name in bold, candidates who have the opportunity to answer post-debate on the wiki are in bold italics. If debate participants want to expand on answers given in the live debate please add it with your name in bold italics as a separate entry under the appropriate question. Thanks!)

Dreasimy: Welcome to our Debate in the 9th Election for Demi-Pharaoh of the 6th Tale of ATITD! For the duration of the debate normal Worship Station posts will be halted (you can use L2PBS for this purpose during this period). The candidates in this election are Augir, cate, and Shiranai!

Dreasimy: Let's get started!

For those who have never had the opportunity to interact with you before can you share a little about yourself, what you enjoy about ATITD as well as how long you have been playing?

Shiranai: I started playing at the beginning of T5. I played until the end. I stared T6 day one as well...I will be here when it ends. What I enjoy of ATiTD is that it doesn't matter the level of play you have.

Shiranai: you can play at your own pace and, generally speaking, the people of Egypt respect that.

Shiranai: I play nearly every day. Most of you have preobably seen me around.

Shiranai: I'm a system admin by trade. I run servers for an organization on a project funded by NASA.

cate: Well, I'm Australian and married with an elderly cat and a musical husband, and I've been playing since Tale 4 right at the end. I spent most of Tale 5 learning and getting better slowly. This is the only multi-player game I've played, and I enjoy it so much, mostly because of the people and challenges!!

cate: I work full time, and egypt is my relaxation...so most week nights are hectic and I get here maybe for an hour or so. Weekends are reserved for bigger things, and I send time offline thinking about how to get the most out of the time I do have online.

Augir:

Dreasimy: I'm unsure if Augir is planning on participating in the debate, so unless I hear otherwise I will go ahead with the questions :)

If you win this election you will pass the test of the Demi-Pharaoh and be our 9th DP of this tale. There are a variety of points of view on what the role of DP should and shouldn't be, what is yours?

cate: I think DP has to be a serious role, and I wouldn't be here if I wasn't prepared to take it on responsibly. Although the banning stuff has had a lot of airplay in the past I think that being there for people, to help with keeping things fair and reasonable and being preprared to stick up for what is right is an important part of the role.

cate: I'm a workplace coach and have spent most of my career in developing people, so mentorng and sorting out win-win solutions is just part of what I do normally. I haven't been a DP before, and would like to think that it can influence upwards and across, and help make the game better for the newbies who we desperately need!

Shiranai: First off: Dp is a test. While passing the test is certianly nice, it should not be the sole driving factor. The DPs are here to maintain order and ballance. Without them there could/has been unfair play, griefing etc..

Shiranai: With that, the DPs have the ability to ban persons. This should be used very sparingly and as a last resort.

Shiranai: Also, with the role of being peacekeepers, is the role of mediator in disputes. This is a role I would gladly take on.

Augir:

How would you handle it, as DP, if you were involved in an interpersonal conflict with another player? How would you handle it if a close personal friend or guildmate made a complaint, or had a complaint made against them, and were seeking your intervention as DP and possibly a ban?

cate: If it is a clear clase of conflict of interest, then the only answer is to brief another DP, or convene the whole group to work through the issues.

cate: But equally obviously the first step would be to talk it through and see if it can be resolved without going that far. Most things can be resolved that way in my experience...

Shiranai: If I was involved in a conflict, I would insist that another/orther DPs be the mediator. The mediator must be impartial.

Shiranai: If a close friend were involved, I would certainly be willing to help. But if I was unable to remain neutral, I would advise the friend to seek other DPs as well.

Shiranai: I would never ban on the sole request of someone else.

Shiranai: In those cases, I think it should be a group decision to ban.

Augir:

Dreasimy: Thanks! now here is [a] follow up ...if you can both address it :D

silver: what if there is no group? if all the other DPs are MIA or in the hypothetical where you were the first DP?

Shiranai: If there were no other Dps available (they quit, or the first one, etc..): Based on past events early in this tale, before we had DPs, if there is a response needed it should be up to the DP to initiate

Shiranai: engaging the population, and/or ballot measures.

Shiranai: If they other Dps are just MIA or unavailable for extended periods, I would try to gather as much info I could to make the best informed decision IO could

cate: Hi Silver! I guess I'd set up a set of criteria for forming a group or 'guiding coalition' to provide me with advice then.. so the decision can be objective as possible, and I'd act on thier recommendations. The criteria would be there to make sure that there was democratic representation and diversity of viewpoints...

cate: But if it comes to threats, intimidation, extortion etc, then that is just not on, and the DP should be able to justify the decision, give prior wanrings, and then take action if need be.

Augir:

Have you been involved in resolving conflicts in ATITD and/or real life? Can you give any specific examples of how you have helped mediate a situation between two parties who could not see eye to eye?

Shiranai: I have been involved in one conflict. It was that I came upon an herb, and foraged it when, from my screen, the other person was on the other side of a lake.

Shiranai: they claimed they were there firfst and complained in the chat of a guild we were both in.

Shiranai: After stating my side, it was apparent that the other person would not let it go..

Shiranai: to alleviate myself from the situtation further, I left that guild. I still remained friends with some of the members..most other members quit over time.

Shiranai: as for real life, not so much.

cate: Yes to both...the one I learnt most from was the hardest one to deal with, and involved a personality-based dispute between people at work...one was disabled, indigenous and with significant caring responsibilities at home. The other was the boss, and I flew in as the independent mediator. It was tough going, and I had to brief the Minister around the solution, but I had to recommend firstly removing the 'victim' and conselling for the 'boss'.

cate: In game, we had a guildy who built a hades furnace too close to someone else's compound. Of course we demolished as soon as I found out we have a problem, and then took the opportunity to map the actual extent of the pollution. It's all on Southern Cross's guild wiki as 'Bloopers". At least we got to learn something for Egypt out of it...

Augir:

Dreasimy: We have another question this one submitted by chat earlier today

Ranno: This question is directed to all three Candidates. How many mentor shrines have you consecrated (not built by your alts)?

cate: lol, just one :-)

cate: I'm not going to go out there trolling for them, so I treasure the one I have...

cate: and hope I deserve some more, eventually :-)

Shiranai: I actually have none atm. Most of the new immigrants I see are other peoples alts.

Shiranai: I would like to get some. :-)

Augir:

Dreasimy: thanks!

Under what circumstances would you consider utilizing the tools created by the Anti-Griefer's Act (AGA) law? What do you consider 'griefing'? Do you feel the AGA has been used well so far?

Shiranai: I believe the AGA has been used wisely. Griefing, in my opinion, is the deliberate act to hinder the ejoyment of another. This could be done in various ways. I would try to get in touch with the parties and try to understand the motivation behind the acts.

Shiranai: If after repeated failed attempts to contact, or unresponsive to requests for information and the act continues, I would be willing to use the AGA. It would not be used lightly. It must be used, like all bannings, as a last resort

cate: For me griefing would be malicious and directed harm...so the first step would be to establish the facts and work out what has happened. Check other perspectives, too. Then AGA comes into it's own. therwise it's mediation, or something like negotiation...

cate: The only time I felt uncomfortable was when teppy was nominated...but I missed the rationale in the chats. I was glad when it was voted down.

Augir:

Jaxum: how would you deal with a situation where you came apon a series of guilded compunds, which people where using, and through an oversite on structure was missed. Would you DPPRA it and tear everything down? Or would you contact the guild in question who still had active members and let them know of there oversite?

Shiranai: that would really depend on the activness of those other members. If they are still active, then, in my opinion, take ownersihp of the compound and then transfer ownership to one of the active members.

Shiranai: Otherwise, before you could contact the other guild persons, no other person could tear it down.

Shiranai: this is while contacting the active persons about it.

cate: yes, I know this situation has happened and in my guild. While I understand that it would be nice to recognise the oversight and contact the owner of all the other compounds, I can also concede that this is a game, and other players have the right to make a decision about what they think is right within the law.

cate: A lot of contact in the game is asynchronous, so it can be hard , specially for newer players to know how to open a chat or check someone's active status...so it has happened unintentionally, and will probably continue.

Augir:

Jaxum: But as DP what would you?

cate: If there are problems like that, then they should be raised, so they can be resolved...

cate: It's not a banning issue, but if it is causing angst then it needs to be s=resolved and the first step might be to ask a DP to 'have a chat'...

Dreasimy: I think Jaxum is asking what you would do if you found the building yourself, not if you were dealing with someone who found the building

cate: oh...well it would depend on the state of the buildings and whether it was useful ...mostly when I've come across abandoned buildings accesssable under the DPA then I've salvaged and either guilded or attemted to give them to new players to help them along...

Dreasimy: FYI One of our debate participants ended up having to be called back into work tonight and has to leave (I knew this before we started) what I think I will do is try to wrap up what we have in the queue and post the log which can be amended with questions and more discussion as people are want to do :D

Dreasimy: I'm going to post the next question while cate is finishing up that one (if she is). This was submitted anonymously

Anonymous: This question is directed mainly towards Shiranai but all 3 candidates can answer....Last tale you (a guild mate of mine) got into a DPA war with another guild mate of mine. While the other guild mate was salvaging items you were picking the materials up off the ground. Is taking materials that another rightfully DPA'd the way for a DP candidate to act and is this the way to keep players in game long term?

Dreasimy: the other candidate(s) can address the larger issue of whether or not allegedly picking up items you didnt dpa off the ground is kosher or not

cate: was there an agreement between the DPA-er and the picker?

Dreasimy: I think your question is more of a hypothetical one where there is no agreement

Dreasimy: (your question being the [one] you have to answer not the one you just asked, sorry) :D

Shiranai: I don't recall that event ever happening as described. Without further information on the subject in question, I don't feel I could answer that. There was once where I was in contact with a person dpa'ing an heirship and agreed to share the materials..

Shiranai: In any event, it is my opinion that only the salvage has the right to the materials.

cate: Hmmm, finders keepers vs snatch and grab...I think is comes down to respecting the other person's intent.

Shiranai: errr...salvager has the right to the materials.

cate: but in a state of war there are no rules...so I can see where DP intervention might come in handy. But in terms of principles then picking up off the ground without checking first is not really a nice way to play.

Augir:

I would like each of you to wrap up now and tell Egypt what they will get in a DP by voting for you. And if you do indeed want them to vote for you, please include why you would like them to.

Shiranai: First off, I would like to say that I've made mistakes. I'm am afterall, human, behind an avatar. The best I can say is that I've learn from mistakes and move on.

Shiranai: What you would get, if I was elected, is a hard working, and a nice person. I would handle conflict resolution as best as I could, and ask for help from other DPs.

Shiranai: I think that there is no wrong choice with any of the candidates. All of us could/would do well as the role of DP.

cate: Yes I would like you to vote for me:-). I'm pretty straightforward and sensible, but so is Shirani. What I can offer is some DP coverage in the USA wee small hours and some ambitious ideas about how to make this game more appealing for new starters and a wider player base...

cate: We are both human and I will do the best I can. Being a DP changes some things, and makes you feel more responsible for how others experience the game, so being part of this process has been enriching and a learning process too.

cate: SO I want to say thank you for the questions, which have been exercising, and hope to see you in game soon, either way:-)

cate: Oh, and happy 'wattle day' - first day of spring downunder!

Augir:

Dreasimy: Thanks to the candidates who chose to participate in yet another blood bath- er... Debate! :D the log will be fluffed, folded, and laid out for you the next morning with your breakfast (on the wiki, formatted for easy reading.) I'll also set it up so Augir can answer the same questions plus much more in our bonus round!

Dreasimy: And thanks for the questions from the citizenry :D

Dreasimy: I now return you to your completely dead but available Worship Station mic :D

cate: Thank you so much Dreasimy for hosting:-)

Shiranai: thank you D! and thank you cate for being a counterpart. :-)

Shiranai: thank you, and good night.

Bonus Round

(A few questions we didn't get to during the live debate)

Under what circumstances do you believe DPs should use permanent bans? If you are versed in ATITD lore, feel free to give an example from a previous tale where you agreed or disagreed with a ban, if you cannot give examples from the past feel free to just discuss the merits of certain situations (hypothetical or otherwise) over others.

Augir:

cate: There was a time during the Geodude period that his interactions shifted from being annoying and just stupid to intimidation, threats and extortion. It's a fairly clear line. There was no DP around until several hours later so a whole lot of us of us tried a whole range of things to slow things down and minimise the impact until the DP logged in. I don't know enough about other bans to be able to offer an opinion on any others.

Shiranai:

Does anyone have access to login to your account? (i.e., would any person other than yourself ever have access to your ban powers)? Note: spouselog does not allow access to ban powers.

Augir:

cate:My rl hubby does currently sometimes log into my account, usually to take the airship out for a spin. If I end up DP I will immediately change my password as a matter of principle.

Shiranai:

What have you done, or what do you plan to do, to benefit Egypt as a whole?

Augir:

cate:I know Augir does lots of things for new people! I started Southern Cross guild with the aim of it being a community for people who play in +GMT 10 (or thereabouts) timezones. Over time this has generalised into more of a commitment to supporting people and helping new players get a head start. That is actually a fine line too, because people need time and space to work their own way through the skills. In terms of proactive help, we have a towers queue and funerary temple queue that have been useful... and public limestone augers and steam shovel operating. I haven't gone into industrial scale open access complexes. I guess most of what I do is chat to new people when they first land, and offer assistance. I just like talking to people and seeing them get going confidently. I would like to be able to help more with research, admittedly.

Shiranai:

Pirates or Ninjas?!!

Augir:

cate:Pirates!! Arggghh!! We watch the Wiggles a lot with my sisters' 6YO, so Capt Feathersword is a bit of an institution.

Shiranai: