User:Khama/DPLog

Kanixihk: well, one obvious but unfair one: why haven't you passed any leadership tests yet? :)

Tut: I try. :P That being said, tell me a little more about how you would use DP to help the ATITD community as a whole, or how you plan to use the DP platform as a launching point for other ventures.

Khama: I am focused on Leadership, and really enjoy mentoring and helping people

Khama: Well hopefully as DP/Oracle - I can help shape a new test for the next tale. But that isnt my main reason for wanting Oracle. I really want to honor my mentor Deeva. A well known and respected legacy player. (I myself am a Grandlegacy) - Hopefully I can pull her back into game. (more ....)

Khama: Getting DP will allow me additional exposure, both in game, and out of game. I have many gamer friends, that I am trying to get into ATITD (I have brought in 3 this tale so far) ... and showing them how any player can aspire and become a leader and DP in game is a nice selling point to bring people in. (More...)

Khama: Alot of Legacy players already know me. I was with AlphaBob, Jodpar, Sinless, Maata, and others in Lower Nubia Public Works (As you can see, I have a history of helping people, over pursuing my own advancement) ... but DP will give me the ability to bond and help newer players even more, showing them what they can aspire to.

Kanixihk: to reply to your question Tut: I have no plans regarding using DP for other ventures, and I rather doubt I'll get to Oracle, though that would be nice. As to helping the community as a whole: I think if ppl don't participate in politics they have no right to complain about having leaders they're unsatisfied with. I didn't have any plans to pursue DP, but I was thrust into it, and I don't wish to make the last-round voters' votes futile. If they think I'd make a good DP, I'm willing to give it a shot.

Kanixihk: I don't think DPs are really "leaders", considering they're one-shot wonders with no powers other than banning... I see them more as arbiters/councilors.

Khama: agreed Kanixihk ....very much so

Khama: Alot of arbiration/counciloring and a bit of mentoring/phsycology mixed in.

Khama: Though most if not all are elected simply on name exposure and trust.

Kanixihk: anyway, I have no idea who among us would make a better DP. Clearly Khama wants it more than I. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is up to you folks to decide. :)_

Kanixihk: only reason I'm here is because last round voters asked me to... I'll do my best to make their decision a good one is all I can say.

Tut: That's fair, Kanix. Very good of you. Not necessarily the most convincing argument to get people to vote for you as DP, but a good thought nonetheless :P

Kanixihk: I'm not really trying to persuade you Tut, I'm explaining the situation.

Tut: I understand, and I appreciate it. :)

Tut: I'm sorry for not having more full and timely responses, too many chats open at once.

Kanixihk: I'm laying my cards on the table. Vote for me, get a reluctant DP who will out of a sense of duty work hard not to make the votes electing him not be in vain.

Kanixihk: Oh, don't worry about it - we're having a discussion, doesn't need to be timely.

Kanixihk: We're only 3/7 here anyway.

Kanixihk: er.. 3/6 I guess

Khama: I cant deny I dont aspire to Oracle, as that is my goal this tale. I would love to honor my Montor Deeva that way. ( We both ran together in T2 in DP ), I will say though that If I am not asked to advance to round 3, so far my support would be for Kanixihk. I know him to be a nice, helpfull person.

Kanixihk: likewise :)

Tut: Ok, now to respond to Khama. :P

Kanixihk: sorry, I suspect you may have more questions than I do, and I'm probably going to have to log very soon - may I interrupt?

Tut: oops, by all means, no need to ask :)

Khama: please do Kanixihk

Kanixihk: I know it's maybe an unfair question, but I am curious - there are 5 leadership tests open, and it doesn't seem like you've passed any Khama. Do you think you have a decent shot at Oracle?

Kanixihk: ok, 4 besides DP :)

Kanixihk: (I'd be happy to have you as a DP btw, I'm just asking because part of your platform seems to be the oracle thing, and I'm wondering if it's viable)

2 days 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Khama: Very much so ....I should pass Coalition next round, In a bureauracy as a Supervisor, I have 2 mentors now, and will be starting Hegemon soon. and as I stated, I opened the Leadership tests, by passing Principals first this tale.

Khama: 2011-12-04 22:56:24 The scientists at the River Plains University of uleadership would like to announce that Khama has demonstrated that Egypt is ready for the leadinit. They declare the Test open for all citizens of Egypt.

Khama: 2 months in, and I am very close to passing 2 (Possibly 3) of the 4 open tests to me right now

Khama: Not high enough level for Hegemon yet, but will be shortly

Kanixihk: well, the opening of principles doesn't mean much to me - you just happened to be the first person there. I'm happy to hear about the other tests though. One last unpleasant question and then I'll shut up: many ppl leave egypt mid-tale. And of course many DPs leave soon after being elected. What's your history of involvement in the game? Do you stick around, or do you like many of us take long hiatuses or leave altogether midway through?

Khama: AFK for 5 minutes .... gotta take the dogs out real quick. .... Oh and welcome to the discussion Karedas ;-)

Kanixihk: I can stick around for another 5-10 minutes to hear your response :)

Khama: I played up until the last weeks of T2 ..... all tale. I dont take long breaks (Week or two at most, if on vacation) ..... I played EQ for 3 years, EQ Mac for 4 years, WOW for 7 years ....

Khama: I ran the EQMac.com website for 4 years, and was the Community Organizer ..... when I devote to a game, its the only game I devote to, and I stick it out

Kanixihk: oh, so you haven't played since T2? interesting, another semi-outsider :)

Kanixihk: I'm done with my questions, Tut, if you want to take over when Khama returns

Khama: Tis true .... Played T2, and am back for T6 (Actually came back T5, but twards the end)

Khama: yes, gonna walk the dogs real quick BRB

Kanixihk: I'm sorry I won't be around for most of the next two days... if anyone would be so kind as to log the chat for me it would be greatly appreciated.

Khama: I will try Kanixihk .... took screen shots, and will try to post them to my user page. Will link to you later. (Any anyone else that want it)

Khama: I have to work tomorrow though, so I may miss some.

Kanixihk: Khama, are you familiar with /copy?

Khama: Tut, you were going to respond, or ask questions ?

Khama: I am not .... Mostly run on Mac, but do run Parallels/Windows sometimes (On Windows Now)

Kanixihk: oh, well it's easier than screenshopts

Kanixihk: *shots

Kanixihk: /copy stores the current chat into the clipboard

Khama: just type /copy?

Kanixihk: yeah

Khama: Cool .. got it

Kanixihk: anyway, I don't mean to impose that burden on anyone, just saying, if it occurs to anyone, I'd appreciate it :)

Khama: pasted to text edit

Kanixihk: cool

Khama: Tut , Did you have questions, or repsonses ? Did not mean to intturpt you.

Khama: Karedas , care to join the discussion ?

Karedas: Why not

Karedas: But I'll mostly be a spectator

Karedas: I signed for DP to pass principle, I didn't expect to go to next round

Karedas: so don't vote for me, I won't be a good DP :)

Khama: your still a part of the election process

Karedas: I'll read what's said here to choose who I'll vote for

Khama: I am going to try to post a log in the next day or so, FYI - I will post a link here

Karedas: from what I red so far, out of the 7 who passed, you are the 2 that are wanting to go for DP

Kanixihk: 3 ppl still haven't spoken up

Kanixihk: so there may be others...

Khama: So far, yes. Archipelago and KiwiBird have not been on

Kanixihk: no, sorry, 2

Khama: KiwiBird hasnt been on in 2 days ... hope he makes it back

Tut: Sorry, had to go afk for a bit. Umm... let me figure out what I was thinking again.

Tut: Again, before I ask anything, please understand that I don't think you would be a bad candidate, but I would like to understand more about you before giving you an endorsement. :)

Khama: Of course

Khama: Also, if you are ever in River Plains, and need public equipment, stop by River PLains Public Works - Located next to ULead

Khama: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale6/Guilds/River_Plains_Public_Works

Tut: Kanix asked some good questions related to tests passed etc, and also to activity. You touched on the leadership aspects of being a DP with my earlier questions. I felt your answers were adequate. I think your motives are pure and praiseworthy, however I don't know that they are a huge selling point for Egypt as a whole.

Kanixihk: well, I guess voting strategy depends on individuals

Tut: What I mean by that is that people will be looking for 2 things in regards to leadership. 1) what are the motives behind this person and will they hurt what I'm trying to do in the game and 2) will this person help what I'm trying to achieve

Kanixihk: some ppl vote their heart, others vote in the hopes of getting the least bad/potentially dangerous candidate

Tut: You pass with flying colors in regards to 1, and in regards to 2, are neutral.

Kanixihk: personally I generally spoil or destroy my ballot :)

Tut: Yeah, that's true, Kanix. In general though those are the 2 things. Just my thoughts on the leadership aspect. In regards to the rest of being a DP...

Kanixihk: (I'm very untrustful of politicians.) But back to your questions... why should the DP be helping you to achieve things?

Kanixihk: Do you really want ppl that get enough votes to have an impact on the game other than dealing with grievances/disputes?

Tut: Is that directed to me? Potentially... yes. I think it would be great to see DP's who are actively leading initiatives in the community using the DP platform and the recognition that brings. Is it necessary, no. Is it a selling point for me and probably for a lot of voters if there's something good that a DP candidate wants to achieve? I think so.

Kanixihk: Well, I can only speak from my bastet experience

Kanixihk: and from the very limited perspective I got from obsessively reading the T4A/T5 mic chat logs posted to the web

Khama: Its all a DP can really do, in sense of power. Its a false position. Use your bans without majority of Egypt behind you, and you could be recalled. You are basically put in power, to do the bidding of the will of the people. Without their backing, you loose your power, trust and honor.

Kanixihk: (and 1 month I spent on T5 to learn from various local experts, mostly re genetics)

Kanixihk: but what I've observed is that generally a DP does very little specific to their office

Kanixihk: they do function as leaders, but that's kind of incidental

Kanixihk: so do lots of ppl without official titles

Kanixihk: so personally, when I vote on the general election, I won't be voting on ppl I think will make egypt better - I'm too cynical for that

Kanixihk: if I can find someone who's running that I think is better positioned to keep things running smoothly, in terms of helping to smooth over conflict, I'll vote for them

Kanixihk: but I won't be holding my breath expecting a DP to somehow make the game better just through their inspirational contributions to the game... I just don't think that's how it usually works

Tut: While that's true, my point still stands that it would be better to see it used as a platform that people with a vision would use to improve different aspects of Egypt. Well, in general what I'm talking about would in my mind be used as a tie-breaker between 2 equal people in regards to the other parts of being a DP (conflict resolution / using a ban). You interrupted me before I could move past my minor point. :P

Kanixihk: (and 1 month I spent on T5 to learn from various local experts, mostly re genetics)

Kanixihk: but what I've observed is that generally a DP does very little specific to their office

Kanixihk: they do function as leaders, but that's kind of incidental

Kanixihk: so do lots of ppl without official titles

Kanixihk: so personally, when I vote on the general election, I won't be voting on ppl I think will make egypt better - I'm too cynical for that

Kanixihk: if I can find someone who's running that I think is better positioned to keep things running smoothly, in terms of helping to smooth over conflict, I'll vote for them

Kanixihk: but I won't be holding my breath expecting a DP to somehow make the game better just through their inspirational contributions to the game... I just don't think that's how it usually works

Tut: While that's true, my point still stands that it would be better to see it used as a platform that people with a vision would use to improve different aspects of Egypt. Well, in general what I'm talking about would in my mind be used as a tie-breaker between 2 equal people in regards to the other parts of being a DP (conflict resolution / using a ban). You interrupted me before I could move past my minor point. :P

Kanixihk: sorry, I'm rambling a bit perhaps. I agree that'd be great, but I don't think that's what happens empirically.

Kanixihk: We all have this fantasy that a DP wil do things to make Egypt better. Personally, I think the best they can do is keep it from getting worse.

Khama: well I would hope to make a difference in both conflict resolution, as well as mentoring and promoting projects and events. But also in helping to design a new test for the next tale.

Kanixihk: But Khama, would you cease to mentor and promote projects/events if you weren't elected?

Khama: never

Kanixihk: that's the difficulty for me in understanding this sort of platform

Khama: it would just give me more exposre and a bigger soapbox ;-)

Kanixihk: well, I think you can get that exposure and soapbox if you crave it regardless of whether you're a DP

Kanixihk: lots of ppl have a big presence in the game through their effort to reach out to ppl at events (sometimes which they sponsor themselves), l2pbs, regional chats, etc

Kanixihk: I don't mean to say you shouldn't be DP, just that I don't think it would make a big difference to your ambitions/projects (other than Oracle of course)

Khama nods

Kanixihk: I should really go to bed, or at least shut up for a while so Tut can get a word in...

Tut: I don't disagree with you that it usually doesn't happen, Kanix, but it doesn't stop me from looking at one person as a good candidate and another as even better because they do have ways they want to improve Egypt with. However... this was all intended to be a very minor point before moving on to what I feel is the most important part of being a dp, so let me know when you're done asking questions about it. :P

Tut: Sorry, had that typed up waiting.

Kanixihk: I'm done, go ahead with your bigger question

Kanixihk: I guess since I'll be gone for two days I'm eager to try to explain myself a bit :)

Tut: Haha, no problem. It's not a big deal, I was just going to move the conversation towards conflict resolution and using bans. So better that we finished with that first.

Tut: Does what I was saying make sense? Like I said, I agree that it usually doesn't happen that someone would have ways they want to improve Egypt, but if they do, that's a bonus to me.

Kanixihk: well, to me, anyone who plays the game seriously has lots of ideas as to how to improve it

Kanixihk: the trouble is, a dp has no greater ability to do so than anyone else, and thus voting for someone you think has a good plan doesn't really change anything

Kanixihk: but yes, conflict resolution, bans, go on - what is the question?

Tut: Well, a dp does have a little bit of an edge in that they are better known. This would let them organize a player-initiated movement easier if that was what was included. Again, conflict resolution and bans is in my mind the most important part of a DP and as such would be the primary criteria my vote would be based on, but the above-discussed subjects would be very handy on deciding between otherwise equal candidates. Anyways, sorry, wanted to get that all out before moving on.

Tut: Both Khama and Kanix then... what would be an example of a situation you would feel a ban is necessary and how would you go about handling it?

Tut: *situation in which

2 days 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Khama: Well actually, with the new AntiGeifers Law, I really dont see a situation where a DP ban is necessary. - sorry it may seem like a cop-out, but its true

Khama: As a DP, I could call on a vote, and allow Egypt to decide if the ban should apply or not

Kanixihk: it does change things quite a bit

Khama: I would never need to use my DP bans (Should I become DP)

Kanixihk: I'm a little out of touch I confess. Do I recall correctly, does a DP now have jailing powers, in addition to the permanent ban?

Khama: No

Kanixihk: I was a DP in T4B (who wasn't?), but I think I recall reading that there another power bestowed at some point

Khama: kuupid asked a GM to jail Geodude, becuase he would log off any time she got near him. This way he could not "Run Away" ... but Teppy vetored it and released him from Jail

Kanixihk: jail was a bad term - I thought it was possible to ban for limited periods of time

Khama: the Bans and now the ability to call a Egypt Wide vote are the only two powers bestowed upon a DP

Khama: nope, premanant Ban

Kanixihk: don't see anything in the wiki about that though, so I'm probably misremembering

Khama: just checked with kuupid to make sure

Khama: She confirms ... permanant bans, and ability to call egypt wide vote ... thats all

Kanixihk: must've been a failed law or something

Kanixihk: does make sense though, the ability to temporarily suspend someone rather than ban them altogether, provided there are safeguards

Khama: so to answer you question Tut , I would never use my bans .... I would however call upon a egypt wide vote, if I thought someone was greifing, and talking to them could not get them to stop.

Kanixihk: sorry Tut, got distracted by other chats. An example of where I would ban: a player refuses, after very lengthy attempts at mediation, to stop griefing other players. Another: a player commits an act extremely averse to Egypt's morality, e.g. a guild Elder taking everyting and demoting/ejecting every other elder. But as Khama says, the easier/more democratic rescourse in this day and age is the AGA.

Kanixihk: 'fraid I'm going to have to sleep. I'll be on briefly tomorrow morning, then see you on Monday.

Khama: Bye Kanixihk

Tut: Sorry, I apologise for disappearing, had to go afk for a bit. Catching up now.

Khama: NP .... I too am headed to bed shortly ... after 12AM here, and I need to work tomorrow. ... leaving in about 5 minutes, will be back tomorrow afternoon

Tut: ok, may leave some questions / thoughts on here in response or something. If not, I'll catch you another time. :) Have a good night!

KiwiBird: @Kanixihk, during tale four there was the ability to ban for a period of time. This ability I believe did actually use one DP Ban however. This was voted in as a change to the test.

Khama: KiwiBird ! Hiya

Khama: oK Tut .... I wil be back in about 12ish hours

Tut: Alrighty, see ya! :)

Khama: I would love to talk KiwiBird , but I gotta hit the sheets. Have to be at work in morning for a few hours

KiwiBird: No worries. Since I haven't been able to be on, I withdraw from this round, but Im not sure who to vote for either.

Khama: Tut or Kiwi ... if there is extensive discussion, please /copy the log for me and Kanixihk

Khama: I wil post what I have for logs tomorrow to my user page

Khama: Night all, catch you tomorrow

Tut: Night.

KiwiBird: Peace for now

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Archipelago: Hello all :)

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Archipelago: I guess no one is on at the moment. I am looking forward to speaking with all about dp, please leave send me a chat if you have any questions for me. I'll do my best to answer them :)

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Archipelago: Mostly because it is collaborative learning at its finest.

Khama: Mine too. I was EQ beta and Wow beta too. .... even ran the EQ Mac Website, and was community leader. They were all friendly, but ATITD beats them hands down. Oh and its Khama (Like Comma) not Kharma ;-)

Archipelago: and something always brings me back. I believe as an extension of that experience and gaming community and a lot of leadership experience I would make a good dp

Archipelago: nice :)

Archipelago: oh sorry! i'm working on a laptop at sort of a weird angle lol

Archipelago: but in short i love the game and i respect the people

Archipelago: i'm also very proactive in problem solving and pretty decisive. So I hope that answers your questions lol.

Khama: how are you doing on Leadership tests ?

Archipelago: Well, I'm still working on demi-pharaoh :)

Archipelago: I'm doing very well on coalition and in bureau i think

Archipelago: 1324 so far in bureau

Archipelago: and 8092 in coalition atm, which is ok i suppose

Khama: not bad

Archipelago: How about you?

Khama: same. though I am lower in Bureau but slightly higher in coalition

Khama: Havent started Hedgemon, but do have 2 mentee's ATM

Archipelago: nice

Archipelago: I would also like to mention, I'll be here until the end of the telling...so we won't be demi-pharaohless ever, should i be elected.

Archipelago: And I promise to free one sheep for every vote I receive.

Archipelago: :D

Khama: same ... Im not going anywhere. I started River Plains Public Works .... ( I was in LN Public Works in T2) ... I love helping peeps. I played all of T2, and intend to play all of T6

Archipelago: Nice :)

Khama: I played EQ for 7-8 years (3 on PC and 4 on Mac) and then 6+ years in WoW

Archipelago: Hoard or Ally?

Archipelago: or is it horde, i can't remember lol

Khama: Ally

Khama: Gnome Mage ;-)

Archipelago: pvp server?

Khama: No, though I did play PVP in EQ (Sullen Zek)

Archipelago: Ah

Archipelago: I played wow from vanilla to cataclysm

Archipelago: Illidan (pvp) on horde side

Khama: I didnt play Cataclsm

Archipelago: It was ok, I got tired of the weekly raid grind

Khama: Stil have active WoW account, but never got the last expansion, and havent logged in months

Archipelago: I miss it a little, but not enough to go back...it's too linear

Archipelago: atitd has more things to do with intrinsic value that are outside the scope of tests, etc, at least from my perspective.

Khama: agreed

Archipelago: and it's one of the few games that I play that still make me feel like a noob because the players are so smart and dedicated

Khama: I hear that.

Khama: Even though new players think I wrote the damn game, with all the knowledge I spew .... I still feel like a newb just about every other day.

Archipelago: I was one of the first people in smellivision (the incense research guild) and just working on that with the others has been a humbling experience

Archipelago: Yep same here

Archipelago: I try to approach the game differently every telling so I learn a little more every time

Khama: sweet, I may have to pick your brain for some recipies ..... I have just been throwing the kitchen at the lab, and hoping for the best

Archipelago: McArine, Skyfeather, Larame, and a lot of other people have done a great deal of work so far

Archipelago: so hopefully it won't be long until we get a lot of the info plotted

Khama: I was parusing the pages the other day

Archipelago: did you see this?

Khama: Opsss, let me copy log real quick ..... Kanixihk wants to read it, he wont be back on till tomorrow

Khama: ok got it

Archipelago: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale5/User:McArine/Incense

Archipelago: McArine wrote a pretty good explanation of how incense really looks

Khama: I was checking them out the other day

Archipelago: Ya, pretty awesome stuff

Archipelago: Exactly why i like this community

Khama: Dunno if you saw my opening statement? Or the discussion last night?

Khama: I need to posts the logs so far .... give me a few minutes.

Archipelago: ok sounds good

Archipelago: I actually have to go afk for a while anyway. I am currently in thesis hell lol.

Khama: k

Archipelago: I will read the logs though, and I look forward to talking more :)

2 days left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Kanixihk: turns out I have some limited access today after all

Kanixihk: hi Archipelago

Khama: WB Kanixihk

Khama: I have been logging, but there might be a few breaks. Also didnt log at the beginning, so missed the opening statements, but you saw those already

Kanixihk: I'm on a lousy computer with a keyboard I'm not really used to, so I'll probably be terser than usual. :)

Kanixihk: ty for doing the logging

Kanixihk: lol, you know your computer is poorly suited to running the game client when harvesting grass from a greenhouse is a big challenge

Kanixihk: even typing feels like I'm on a 300baud dialup connection

Khama: doh

Khama: I remember those days ......

1 day 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Kanixihk: can't handle the slowness... see you tomorrow possibly, more likely Monday

Khama: OK

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Khama: Morning tut