T7 Improvement Ideas

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Tests

Test of Mentorship

Suggest to Scrap the Mentor Shrine, and change to a point based system where the mentee can award points based on a fixed schedule to player(s) that have been helpful to them. May tie it to levels/test advancement of the mentee. Changes the focus to not just be about mentoring a player up to citizenship. The number of points to pass will be adjusted accordingly, for example it could be 21 points from 7 different mentees. --Porthos 20:15, 22 March 2014 (EST)

Could keep the Mentor Shrine, but have the mentor build it, not the mentee. Once the test is opened, give each player one token on each level-up which they can then deposit in a mentor shrine of someone they feel have mentored them well. This will act as a cue to players not familiar with the test since they will have a token in their inventory, and allow multiple mentors to benefit from the assistance they provide. I also find that a mentor shrine built today doesn't take into account the mentoring I may get from other people at a later date. Silden 16:58, 23 March 2014 (EST) +1 (Eimear)

(Moved up from below) I definitely want to increase the amount of interaction between mentor and mentee. However, I don't want to just tie to tests/achievements, etc.. It would feel like Prophet/Promotion/Marriage etc... What about keeping the Shrine, tying it to player retention and requiring both the mentor and mentee to meditate together on it once a week to show that the two actually got together at least the once to accumulate the points. Maybe points based on time logged in at the same time (Bonuses for tests and achievements, but I don't want the majority of points to come from that) (IE - You cant mentor effectively if your not on at the same time) I hesitate to do within proximity of each other with the wide use of chat channels for mentoring it would make mentoring harder which isn't what I want. I am thinking a having test passing be based a threshold, with added bonuses for scores beyond the passing level. (level of effort: 4 hours) --Pluribus 20:27, 23 March 2014 (EST)

If the mentee can build than more than 1 shrine, say they want to change mentors (if their old one quit etc), then yes a minimum requirement of time on together to be able to choose a new mentor, or dedicate it to their current for that week would be welcome. Maybe limit it to total of 7 weeks that a mentee/mentor meditate together (not necessarily consecutive weeks) and give a message that you can only change mentors once or twice so choose wisely--Porthos 06:48, 24 March 2014 (EST)

I would like to come back the Beeginer Island, it was a very good idea for new people, and ask player too concentrate them self to this test--Kastou 07:48, 25 March 2014 (GMT+1)

There was a different mentoring process in Tale 4 which seems to work well from my perspective as a newbie player. You had several choices to give mentoring tokens to people who help you and got more as you levelled, so you could spread the appreciation as you progressed. I vaguely remeber there being wells that grew the more mentor tokens were put in, so it was a visible indication of who was a good mentor or not. And yes, bring back newbie island! +1 Eimear)

• If we bring back Newbie Island can it be optional? It's really tedious for returning players.

IMAO Beginner Island was a process which could be done in less than 20 minutes for a returning player, so its not such a burdain compared to the benefit it brings to new players, so if complicated to implement an optian on this process, it does not mater. -1 Asnath

• Newbie island was a PITA to many, it meant someone had to be there watching it all the time. Also, T4 was gamed to hell. Everyone remembers how Teppy heaped fame on the first person to pass, those passes were bought as alts. Mentoring doesn't stop at just level 7, a lot of the people I taught in T4 were well past that. Removing the necessity of test participation to mentoring should also be done, I think Pluribus is onto something good here. I mean, how many people level 7+ know the {time command? Or that you can use /copy to copy the text in a window? Or that brickracks are the best way to prospect? Orrin

Test of Marriage

When was this test modified ? T4 maybe ?

• I liked it much more in T3, i.e. when *both* spouses would win the test on a given week and the points were Nb. of tests passed as spouses (by *either* spouse) x number of weeks since married.

I think that it was way more of a collaboration between the spouses to win together the test of marriage than what is happening now since the test was modified. (Basically now only one of the spouse wins the test, if the other spouse has worked like a slave to pass as many tests as possible)

So...can we have the initial Test of Marriage back ? --Nissim

• FYI : The initial marriage test was in worship (didn't even need to pass worship init)and you could pass it just after you got married. So, yea, i'd guess the t3 version is what would be the preference, since it also includes casanova passes (Which even if we do have them in t6, are a rarity) http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale3/Tests/Test_Of_Marriage --blondie

• I find that some of the perks for marriage provide too much help for other areas of the game. For example, spouse porting gives an unfair advantage in events that prohibit navigation/expedition/paid chariot travel. It also allows the progress in tests that are designed to make you get out there, and do so with next to no cost. Examples include porting to your spouse who has stumbled along an Ibis, then porting back home when your spouse has finished their travels or porting to a cicada and double hitting it. May I suggest that we change free spouse porting to an extra waypoint instead, where porting to your spouse will cost you navigation time. Silden 17:01, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• Please, please, please, don't mess with spousal warps. I can understand not having it on some events. We've been penalized already on phoenix runs, I think that's punishment enough. There will be plenty of Ibis that people will all get them at one point, same thing with cicadas. There are times when people don't EVEN run to reported sightings or have too many cicadas. I don't think spousal warp should be blamed on losing out on tests. (--blondie, march 22, 2014)I agree fully with you blondie - march 24, '14 +1Jaylenaeybarre +1 tehm

I haven't followed the changes in marriage. My understanding is that the complaint is that both players don't advance at the same rate. (IE - one player works his butt off to advance tests and only the partner is rewarded) So, you want me to solve the dead-beat spouse issue... Or is this just a marriage between a main and a mule? (In which case, I dont see a problem) Isn't picking a spouse who wont leave you high and dry part of the test? I am just trying to better understand what the problem is. --Pluribus

I think marriage passes could be an issue both if you have a mule or if you have a real player as your spouse. If you look at it the way marriage is now, you basically need your spouse to pass tests if you want to pass marriage. That would encourage you to have a mule that passes tests so you can pass marriage. So, if we had marriage go back to t3 ways, both spouses would get credit every time either passes a test. This seems more like the spouses working together for a common goal. Also, the spouse passing tests/active is getting credit for the work they are doing. The t3 way: spouse A passes 2 tests, Spouse B passes 3 tests; they both get 5 points, that gets multiplied by the weeks they've been married. Hopefully that makes more sense in terms of what we are looking for in the test --Eimear (blondie +1)

Test of Seven Phoenix

Should be able to build a monumental Phoenix (in the same way we have with Monumental Towers) Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST)+2 Jaylenaeybarre, Porthos

Test of Khefre’s Children

I have been struggling with getting through this Test all tale, mostly because I badly misinterpreted the scoring process for Level 3 and in trying to work it out for myself have ended up competing against just about everyone trying to get aggregate score higher in the lower levels.

Would it be possible to make the scoring for Level 3 simpler and tied to player votes for the beetle’s qualities rather than also being tied to the player who is exhibiting the beetle? An emphasis on artistic merit would be in the spirit of the test. Not sure how to control for block voting in collusion though. - Cate

Test of the Covered Cartouche

• Buildings built in the building rounds should disappear once the round is over. Otherwise high level players just salvage everything at the end, and not feel the pain that lower level players with poorer salvage skills can manage. Should be able to build monumental buildings (in the same way we have with Monumental Towers) instead. Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• I think it's mean to have buildings built during building rounds disappear. Some people don't get very far into cartouche rounds and only get a handful (if lucky) of cartouche buildings. You would be, in fact, penalizing people who don't reach high levels of cartouche. Isn't cartouche mean enough? You also can't salvage cartouche buildings. I can't remember for sure if the owner can but i believe they are not dpa-able, at least. Note: cartouche is not an arch test and having the buildings stay after you build is part of the reward of doing cartouche. (blondie-- march 24, 2014)

• let us keep the cartouche buildings! they are a nice deco in your garden - btw yes they are salvable by the owner, but it has nothing to do with your 'high' level, but with your salvage level - so it is even possible for a lowlevel player to get a high salvage level (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14)

• Build cartouches from previous tellings, like all-star cartouche rounds. Also, having more events/contests where everyone can build cartouche buildings. I think that's worked out very nicely when it's been done. If it were done more often more people would have decorations they could add to their homes. (blondie-- march 24, 2014)

• Nobody has problems with the building rounds but many don't like the voting rounds. Cartouche is not an Architecture test and the voting rounds are its very essence. However, if a huge alliance is formed the players out of the alliance don't stand a chance. There is a simple solution that keeps the essence and gives a survival chance to everybody: after a building round, the player that made the biggest building would would become "safe" for one round (similar to having the immunity idol of the TV show Survivor), not being shown in the voting list, with the system randomly deciding the "safe" player in case of a tie. The members of a powerful alliance still have the possibility to eliminate the others but now they would need in each building round to make one of their members overbuild everybody else in order, making their task more complex. (Sabuli -- April 24 2014)

Test of the Oyster Catcher

Swimming shouldn't be given when you take the test, instead Swimming should be a skill you learn at school, and be a requirement to take this test. Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST) +3 Jaylenaeybarre,tehm,Asnath

I agree, and why not just make oyster catching part of Safari and remove or simplify the whole pearl thing. --Nemoder

Thought Tests

Can we remove the heavy reliance of so many cuttable gems from a lot of these buildings? Particularly from the principles, but from the actual building construction too... Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• I don't agree, as it is now it keeps trading for those cutted gems into the game (btw I can't cut all them either) it's a skill like blacksmithed stuff, some are experts, others moderated and most can't do any gem - anyone has the choice to try it (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14) +1 Asnath

Test of the Sphinx

A mythological Sphinx guards a liminal boundary (like between life and death, childhood and adulthood) and offers a challenge, which when incorrectly answered results in punishment or retribution, or even death.

Although it would be difficult to incorporate all those elements in a Test, there are a few things I found have not worked particularly well in the T6 Test. For example, it can take forever to cycle through the banks of riddles entered by the players, both in evaluation and to answer. If there could be a filter that removes riddles that make it to ‘noble’, so that you can only evaluate or answer riddles that are still trying to get to ‘noble’, then that might streamline things.

Enhancements: What do you think? A random ‘noble’ riddle from the pool of those filtered out of active evaluations is posed to all who enter a riddles into the Sphinx as a challenge. If there are no noble riddles (ie. in the beginning) then there could be a default, or no challenge made. Those who get the answer wrong would be punished in some way – maybe required to offer up something from current inventory before entering their riddle. Those who get it right are given something low value as a reward into inventory. Would make interacting with the Sphinx more dynamic! - Cate

A change easy to implement: instead of two options, three options (evaluate my riddles, answer my common riddles, answer my noble riddles) making the common riddles more accesible and less "lost" in the ocean of noble riddles. (Sabuli)

If the probability of a riddle to appear is ponderated (inverse proportional to the amount of times it has appeared) the problem of the riddles that appear again and again would be reduced (Sabuli).

Sound Based Tests

I understand Safari and Cicadas are beloved tests and I don't want to suggest changes that will take away from those tests for the majority of players, but I would like to explore if there is a way to make them accessible to players with hearing loss. This was less of a problem in T3 (see the Test of Marriage issue, above), but this Tale my spouse is playing as me to drag me through Marriage so we're not penalised for the fact that anything with directional sound is not going to happen for me. Suggestion: maybe a visual HUD people could load if they wanted it? I realise that would make the tests easier, but it would also make them accessible to more people. --Eimear

I wanted to add about safari. Frogs used to have shadows in the past. Is it possible to add shadows back? That may help those who have issues with sound (blondie, march 23rd, 2014)

Add me to the issue with Sound Based Tests. I'm registered Hearing Impaired, and I have a problem with Cicadas and Bullfrogs too. If nothing else, for Cicadas have a Main Chat entry when the system first starts to play the cicada chirping saying "You hear the faint noise of a Cicada nearby", and for bullfrogs, as Blondie says above, bring back the shadow, that helps. Alternatively, a range of messages based upon the strength and direction such as "You hear a faint sound of a Bullfrog", "A chirp of a bullfrog can be heard in the distance", "You hear a strong sound of a Bullfrog to your left", "You hear a strong sound of a Bullfrog"... Silden 17:14, 23 March 2014 (EST) (+1 Eimear)

The shadows on frogs were a client bug with the rendering order. (The bug made anything that was invisible have a shadow, and yielded a lot of complaints from players about "clicking on the frogs and getting credit" when there was no frog there... (Silt spawners are an example of these, they are invisible unless the world is in builder mode) That client bug also reduced client speed and so that bug will not be re-introduced. --Pluribus 14:30, 24 March 2014 (EST)

Understood. Anything visual you could think of would improve these tests. Silden has a good suggestion I think. Thanks. (Eimear)

Test of the Safari

Would be fun to add feature to do extended safari, similiar to gaining speed points. Each additional strength point beyond 7 would take x of each animal ^ (Current Strength-7). Also, hinges on changes to limit max chocolate+herb stacking to around +21 on a stat (in early game to dowse for metals)--Porthos 08:14, 24 March 2014 (EST)

--I'd second the points beyond 7 suggestion, but am ambivalent to the herb stacking cap. tehm +1 Jaylenaeybarre

Darkest Night Test

Let us have the option to discard a list, like we can do with ritual tattoo (just go to another ubody) or like the banquet : You can obtain a new list from each UBody once/week - the week resets when passes are run. Also let us do more lists (for those who want) just like the ritual tattoo - aka possibility of 28 lists, just need new mushrooms (sofar only 35 ingame now) - but we would still need at least 35 different mushrooms to pass the test - getting all 49 could be another achievement (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14)

--Second for being able to scrap a list (Darkest Night or Ritual Tattoo) you're finding too difficult, but ambivalent on adding more mushrooms. I'd like more ways to get insight into how mushrooms spawn rather than just finding other mushrooms. tehm

• I think it would be nice to add mushrooms, maybe that would allow us to, similarly to ritual tattoo, pick and choose which mushrooms we hunt for. More mushrooms could be used for cooking or chemistry, so i think that could benefit the game. Mushroom spawn is about doing research, ecology, finding patterns which could be used as part of the test. Being able to get more clues from the devs about those spawns could be a good idea but having to do more research shouldn't prevent us from getting new shrooms. We haven't had new shrooms for a while, it sounds like something to look forward to. (blondie, march 26, 2014) +2 Porthos, Asnath

Test of the Funeral Temple

Couldn't we use the fishscales here too? could even ask for 7 different colors to open up the test and then use at least 7 different colors, like the raeli tiles to be able to pass the test?

Also in egypt there were certain rituals when one was about to be buried: with some everyday objects and food (for the less rich ones) and bread, fruit, amulets - aka gems? and furniture (for the richest ones ) for the afterlife

• food: could be anything we have now: vegggies, water, dates, eggs, could even be animals
• amulets: certain gems
• beer

could put it in the principles to have at least 7 different of the fruit/veggie/water/gems?

or put it to pass the test: have to have at least 7 different fruit/veggie and 7 different gems (small, med or large)

(Jaylenaeybarre-- march 25, '14)

• Complex items were disallowed as it unbalances a lot of the test. Think of the boom in test scores if you allowed unique wines in for example.

Test of Demipharaoh

In addition to keeping the logs as was recently voted on, I feel that at some point voting in more DemiPharaohs does nothing to protect the players from griefing but actually would increase the risk of it since you're giving ban power to more people who might not use it responsibly. That hasn't been an issue this tale, but there are examples from previous tales. Furthermore, as we got into late tale, several people got into the final rank unopposed which guaranteed their election without the input from Egypt as a whole. Hence, I recommend having a "No candidate" option available at every election so at some point Egyptians could as a whole decide that we do not need a new DP this month.

--GHawkins 17:06, 26 March 2014 (PST)

Test of Banquet

Difficult menus are part of the challenge, but I don't think that running around between different universities to replace menus that are completely IMPOSSIBLE is a useful part of this test. Unless we've all missed something, date beer was literally impossible this telling, yet many menus continued to call for it. Rare ingredients and flavour combinations seemed to show up frequently on menus, but perhaps the test should not call for a beer type until someone has managed to successfully brew it at least once.

--GHawkins 17:20, 26 March 2014 (PST)

• Banquet IS a body test, though. Like tattoo we have chances of rerolling menus and getting other menus from different Unis. Some beers may also take time to find ...yeast spots for? couldn't you just make an argument for that because something doesn't exist then it shouldn't be in a menu? You could say the same for wines people don't have yet, or for fish people haven't caught? Banquet is a pretty high level test, so there should be work needed to get to it. You need 7 perception for it, that's pretty advanced. Banquet is also a very beneficial event (21 players partake in a meal with 7 of each stat for 8 real hours). It seems difficulty in having to go over different menus balances that out. --blondie 00:28, 27 March 2014 (EST)

Test of Festivals

Similar to Banquet, date beer has been called for in several Festivals which has required those players to reset their requirements. It's one thing if that's an intended feature, but I don't personally feel that impossible requests add anything of value to the test.

--GHawkins 17:20, 26 March 2014 (PST)

• Festival is meant to be a test that takes a while to pass. You can always reset your reqs; it only takes doing another festival and you only have to wait a day or two to do that festival again. In Hathor, VP date beer is only one of 8 possible beers. Osiris is harder festival because we need more reqs for each beer but there's still a lot of possible combinations and this telling people have already managed to make some beers that were not possible or not found a lot earlier in the telling. We've had impossible fruit of earth spirits in past tellings and yet Ra festivals are successful. Honeys and citruses for Bastet and Isis have to be planted and found, some are very rare. Yet festivals still get passed all the time and there's cycles of passes/participation. I think some of the challenges like these, where people have to find other options, make the passes feel more worthy. --blondie 00:49, 27 March 2014 (EST)
• One issue people have about festivals, aside from needing 100% satisfaction for 7 gods rituals, is having conflicting time zones. People may never be around for the EST US 3pm time on Sat/Sun (though that festival time has been around since t1, I remember). A good idea might be to find a way for people to share %ages even though everyone can't be online at the same time. I've no new suggestions but people have done extra festivals, mini-festivals. Some of that has caused extra use of limited supplies, some has caused player burn out. So maybe there's a way that to try to make that less difficult. --blondie 00:49, 27 March 2014 (EST)

Test of Pyrotechnics

Is it possible to bring back the T2 way of scheduling pyroshows - they were scheduled in rotating timezones & regions - there were lots of shows then, so every few weeks you could entera show instead of now, just waiting until enough people sign up - Murtha

Suggestion: schedule a fixed pyroshow every 1st saturday of the month, 1 on european time , 1 on us time - if we want more shows we have to trigger them ourselves Jaylenaeybarre

Leavened Bread

I was really challenged and I ended up enjoying it far more than I expected. It is pretty intimidating to a new player though and the effort required to gather the materials and coordinate the group makes this as much a leadership test as a worship test. And then after all that effort, that was it. I was wondering if there can be more of a permanent result for those that do get through the test.

Maybe something like conferring the ability to upgrade a kitchen to bake bread that confers temporary stats boosts when shared –requiring invocations/ emotes during the process to keep the worshipful element present. Seems counter-intuitive that with low player numbers the only way to find an alt of the right ‘age’ and discipline in the time frame for sharing the hold bread is to create one for the purpose, but with lower player numbers it was pretty well the only option. - Cate

Darkest Night

It could be a way to get more constitution points after passing the test. Random lists of first 6, then 7, then 8 shrooms to find and eat (that can be discarded and retaken in other U.Body like the tattoo lists) - Sabuli

Improvement Ideas, Suggestions, and Requested Changes

Fishing Improvements

Reduce the cost to improve fly fishing skill by about 2/3, so instead of 1200 fishing points to go from fly fishing 1 to fly fishing 2, it would be 400 fishing points. (Would say this is the most needed improvement)

Add in new varities of fish, increasing the total types of fish throughout Egypt to 243. Maybe add achievement for catching a # of different varities.

Change how the game places fish, instead of by grid location, make certain fish only capturable in a region. Also tie certain fish to be near terrain features like shallow water, deep water, clay or papyrus or large stone etc, similiar to tattoo. +1 tehm

Allow the higher quality fishing rods to be craftable by players. Maybe tie it to fly fishing level and carving level. (This is probably the 2nd most needed improvement)+3 Jaylenaeybarre, tehm, Asnath

Add in a rare random event (graphical or text message) that an epicly large fish of the appropriate species (for the location, time and month) is spotted near by. To catch the player plays a mini-game using sliders on line tension (line play), and reeling in, the larger the fish the harder to catch. These fish can be mounted (maybe add an achievement) --Porthos 20:15, 22 March 2014 (EST)

Fishing needs to be examined in the context of Isis' bounty as I have explicitly been requested to permit fishing from boats. (Not sure the animation system will allow the blending of the boat animations (the boat) with the fishing animations properly while keeping the two together) If doable, then fishing areas will greatly expand. As for the rest of the things, Flyfishing is new tech to me, Let me look at that code a bit and see how easy it will be. (Likely significant time to code) --Pluribus, 22 March 2014 (EST)

Click, wait 15 seconds... click, wait 15 seconds... click, wait 15 seconds... Not very stimulating. I'd much rather have a click, and have the bobble land in a random place, then bob when there's a fish. On clicking the bobble, a powerbar appears with green in a random part, red on either side, and a black bar that randomly moves left and right. Your job, get it to the green area within a couple seconds, and keep it there. Once the allotted time has passed, you catch the fish. The bar on the powerbar moves faster the lower your strength (hence harder to keep in the green area), and the duration of this power bar assigned to Endurance. I would find that much more stimulating. Silden 17:18, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Raeli Ovens

• The ownership feature of Raeli Ovens appears to have introduced a miracle of physics - the instant porting of lots of tiles. A player can have thousands of tiles delivered straight to their temple or warehouse if they start the oven, head to their temple/warehouse, and have a second person stop the oven at the desired time. The oven will then port the tiles straight to the player standing next to their temple/warehouse. Let's have these tiles stay in the machine, with the Take menu displaying Owners tiles and Last Baked tiles. The Owners tiles are only accessible by owners of the oven, and the Last Baked Tiles would hold the bakers tiles (either accessible to all, or have the bakers tiles become the owners tiles if the oven is baked by a new player) Silden 17:32, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• • When an oven is owner percentage set, Player 1 starts an oven, Player 2 stops the oven, tiles go into player 1's inventory. However player 1 doesn't need to be near oven. Player 1 can be anywhere, such as at their Funerary Temple on the other side of Egypt. The tiles will still go into Player 1's inventory. This causes huge amounts of tiles to instantly transport themselves across the map. Player 1 can start off with 500 charcoal, go to South Egypt and start up 10 ovens, then head back to their temple in River Plains. Player 2 then has nothing in their inventory, and goes to each of the ovens stopping them at the desired time. Player 1, who is in River Plains at the funerary temples then has the tiles instantly pop in their inventory. So, with no food, or anything else, they can easily have tens of thousands of tiles transported from the ovens to their funerary temples. Silden 08:54, 24 March 2014 (EST)
  • I'm sorry, I completely misunderstood that you were talking about A BUG. I haven't used public or partly public use ovens for at least 6 months. I never had what you are reporting happen. Right, this completely sounds like a miracle of physics, even for the virtual atitd world, it sounds like it's not working as intended. It's possible others are having the same issue. This should be reported to Pluribus in game through a dev call. I think you should do that, if you haven't. Pluribus has been asking us to report bugs that we find. --blondie 08:02, 28 March 2014 (EST)

• imo nothing needs to be changed here, as blondie stated (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14 I do think permissions on ovens are set up (when they work as intended by the devs) correctly, though. I don't think that needs to be changed, aside from bugs occurring.--blondie 08:02, 28 March 2014 (EST)

• I'd like to see something that slows the clay rush on these- change the required Oven materials to something people aren't already preparing for so early on. tehm 03:10, 26 March, 2014 (EST)

• Right now there is ovens with over 100k tiles sitting in them unburned, its completely unrealistic. I'd like to suggest that Raeli Ovens are completely overhauled. The research costs remain much the same. However, instead of resin to build them, they take resin to color the clay. With each resin type giving a different color scale (maybe scrambled on a player basis, so not all players can make all colors but we can make over 80-90% of them, to enable trade). I would like to see them have a VERY limited hopper size to start, possibly 500 tiles max, upgradable to 1000/2000/4000. With a small reduction in the amount of resin needed to fire the oven, if starting costs are 25cc and 100 resin to fire, upgraded costs may be 50cc/150resin for the 1000 hopper, 75cc/200resin for the 2000 hopper, 100cc/250resin. All the fancy % for burning on existing ovens would be removed, and they would be treated like a normal building, ie able to be set to personal, public or guilded. The build areas for the ovens should probably be halved, enabling more ovens to be built closer together. I realise that this may make tests like aqueduct harder but I think in a way that will encourage more people to work together. (Pluribus if your willing to consider this I am happy to work out color sets/rarities ect and link them with resins maybe grouped as common, uncommon, rare, exotic.) Kyline 5 Apr 2014

Keyboard Shortcuts

Can we stop the spam of some keyboard shortcuts. The main culprit is the Greenhouses, you press H to harvest a few greenhouses, but get a main chat full of You harvest 100 gress. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. You harvest 100 gress. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest.... you get the idea. Silden 17:32, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Interface Improvements

• Can the Project and Skills menus be better organized? Divide them into subgroups based on what schools they were learned from or at least alphabetize the lists. +1 kyline (Pluribus, I feel pasionately about menuing, and would be happy to make suggestions or develop something like a mock up of how I think it should look in consultation with other players. If you are willing to streamline the menu's let us know and I would be willing set up another wiki page to work on it kyline).
• Can we have a customizable hotbar that we can assign frequently used actions (such as planting a specific seed or some skill) to? I know you can pin menus but they still become quite cluttered and it's easy to hit the wrong one. -Nemoder 30 March 2014
• Herbs as a 'grouped' item, like 'Herb Seeds' or 'Fishing Lures' to keep inventory looking keen. Koinif 4/10/2014, +1 Jaylenaeybarre,
• 'How Many' option. One way this could be done is with a command /howmany <number for default>. Then if a player is using a number other than 1 or MAX often, the interface would once again be your friend. I would suggest if this option is used, it would uncheck "Default to Max" under Interface Options -> Other (section). Then when it is unchecked (or toggled twice) it would reset the 'How Many' value to 1. Koinif 4/10/2014

Trading Posts

Let's change the trading post to allow someone to take what they have to sell, and then indicate what they are willing to take for it. Then, if someone matches what has been asked for, then the item for sale will unlock. The interface should have two boxes, one for quantity, one for resource. I take my 9k hatchet to the trading post, it then brings up a window asking me what I want for it, I put in 100 into the quantity, I type in Steel into the second box, then if someone brings a resource matching exactly that string, and the exact quantity, then it will take the 100 steel, put it into the trading post, and release the 9k hatchet. The seller then just pops along to the trading post, and take out their steel. Whilst some people want the interaction (and the acro, signatures etc), some don't. Not everyone plays at the same time, 8pm in Europe could be 2pm in the US and 8am in Australia. Not everyone is going to be around at the same time to effect the trade, and The Goods don't sell everything (particularly cut gems) Silden 17:32, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• Note : The goods can sell everything that exists in game, people just need to ask The Goods admin to add missing items - Asnath
• "If the item appears in your items list with a ":" and a quality or other description after, then The Goods does not trade it." (Source) - The Goods don't trade in cut gems, hatchets, carpentry blades, metal shovels, flax seeds, resin, paint... Silden 16:06, 14 April 2014 (EST)

Long Range Ferry

• Once constructed, a Long Range Ferry shouldn't de-construct to it's basic components. It should remain as a Long Range Ferry (with an appropriate Weight/Bulk), in the same way an Airship does. Also, it shouldn't cost you a construction site each time you want to place it somewhere. Once constructed, there should be no further construction site costs. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• Controlling the way the ferry is placed so you can ride it through bodies of water should be set up better. Sometimes it takes ages to be able to place a ferry and you constantly get a message that you can't go anywhere (blondie, march 24, 2014)

This object is too far away

If it's possible, then please can we reduce the number of "This object is too far away" in respects to situations where it is not appropriate. For example, when you are mining, you should be able to reach all ores, not just some of them. Nothing worse than standing at ore 1, and not being able to select ore 10. Same with trees, there are some occasions when you are the high of your avatar away from a tree, and have that message, then find you can click on a different tree that is 5 times the height of your avatar with no problems. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Bypassing the Level System

Might there be a way, perhaps a tech or skill, for someone to automatically set their level high enough that they would be able to progress as if the system wasn't there? It could be a costly skill or tech or even something only available to people with a Tale or three under their belts. -Bri

• Remove the level system entirely! *raises pitchfork* Honestly it was the most annoying change ever devised. Want to make a marble tub? You better get grinding out those stupid tests then! - Orrin
• But one can always ask someone else to come make them, but can understand the fact that someone wants to build their own stuff and don't want to rely on others

Overlapping Fauna

Can we do away with overlapping fauna and trees? So irritating when you have to be pixel perfect to reach that thorn bush that is inside the hawthorn tree, or two trees that are on the exact same spot, and differ only by the direction of the bark. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

This would require building a true collision system into the engine. It is unlikely time for T7... Granted it would prevent ANY building from overlappying, (Like greenhouses, flax beds, vineyards, etc... Also unknown what the added collision detection calculations would do to the engine speed. I will add it to the "play with" list though --Pluribus 20:15, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Peaky hills - Terrain too steep

Some places have peaky hills that generate a terrain too steep message which can be ultra annoying when you think "it's a puddle, why are you saying I can't walk through a lake?". Is it possible to have these hills traversable with care. By this, I mean have it cost a bit in endurance/strength, so that after a footstep or more, you get the message that it was "too much for you, rest a bit", and leave the terrain too steep messages for the terrain that really is a mountain rather than a molehill. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Last Jug

Please can we get rid of the "You can't use your last Jug". I know it's a catch-22 (Can't get clay without a jug, can't get a jug without a clay), but those messages when building is far more likely than someone using their last Jug (let them trade for one if they do get into that situation, or give us a Pottery Refresher Course for a cost like 500 wood, where another jug is provided to them) Silden 17:52, 23 March 2014 (EST)

This one has to stay on by default. The GMs had to reimburse MANY a newbie because they donated their last jug to the university and complained bitterly. I would consider a popup warning the first time warning you that NO reimbursements of any kind will be given... (and make you type "NO TRAINING WHEELS" to acknowledge it...) then FLAG the account so the GMs wont help you... --Pluribus 20:10, 23 March 2014 (EST)

A possible to solution to this would be to change the free jug to another type of water storage. Some form of water-skin perhaps? It could also a crafting assignment given to the new player, which they would then be able to carry on with them without the fear of accidentally donating it or otherwise unintentionally destroying it. Likewise as a crafted item it could also have a potential to wear out and become useless, or depending on the type of material leak, or have some sort of other downside that would limit its overall usefulness, but still allow a water source solution. --Kartal 20:10, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Couldn't you just create a Preference for this that has you warned by default, but advanced players could turn off the message?tehm 3:13, 26 March, 2014 (EST)

Guild Storage

Some guilds need lots of storage, and end up with massive amounts of storage buildings to accommodate it. To reduce the clutter on the highway, can the guild-houses be "upgradable" to allow storage of anything. So for every 100 Boards, 1000 Bricks and 10 Cut Stone, the building can hold another 25,000 deben.

There are already several different storage buildings. Using the guildhall for extremely cheap storage rather than those makes no sense. --Pluribus 20:12, 23 March 2014 (EST)

This wasn't my idea, but if storage clutter is a concern, how about instead allowing multiple upgrades of warehouses buidling more shelves (Cost: 1000 Boards 25 Iron Strap 40 Mandibular Glue 40 Bolt) each time giving 50,000 more storage like the current 50k to 100k upgrade?--Porthos 07:31, 24 March 2014 (EST)

Insect Rarity Tweaks

As it stands in particular the last tiers of the crop insects (Snowberry Butterfly, Ruby Hornborrer, Corn Maggot, Roseswallowtail, Orchid Hopper and Dew Fly) are impossible to get in any quantity for fly tying skill. Some people have done 777,777 flax or 100k+ onions and not got a single one, as additonal data please see Thorn_Insect_Data so please consider an adjustment.

The tier 7 rarity (Toad Sawfly) for the livestock dwelling and (Feather Midge) herb dwelling may need to be slightly improved as well.--Porthos 06:03, 24 March 2014 (EST) +2 (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14), tehm 3:13, 26 March, 2014 (EST)

Unless we are missing something about how the game calculates which insect you get when you get one, a few math calculations can show it is basically impossible to get the rarest crop insects (the ones listed above, you might have to find 50000-100000 clutches to have a chance). I have a feeling that the RNG for ATID is not perfect either. For tree,water,herb,and livestock insects a rarity rate that doubles for each insect makes sense, because there are only 7 insects in each category. But crop insects have 14 types so they should not use the same increase in rarity. My suggestion is to have two tiers of crop insects: regular and rare. The regular tier would be 7 insects who have the same rarity values as their corresponding insects in the tree/water/herb/livestock categories. When you find clutch of crop insects, the game should calculate if you should receive a 'rare' insect instead of the regular tier (this could be a low chance, 7% or something). If that happens, you recieve one of the 7 'rare' tier insects instead, and those 7 could follow the same pattern as the other insect categories (1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc). In this case, the rarest crop insects would remain very uncommon but still be attainable by a determined player. --Blueshift

Rate of finding insects - it is too low for herb and livestock dwelling. The T5 rate was better, but generated too many insects in the other categories. Perhaps a compromise with the T6 rate?

Stat tweak it? +Per helps you find more bugs, +Foc helps you find rarer bugs.

More Interesting Compounds

As it currently stands the only difference between most compounds is general shape and what combination of walls and windows they use. As I figure, part of this is the lack of options available while the other half of the equation is the sometimes exorbitant cost of doing anything beyond the basic - especially on larger structures! As such, I might suggest linking the ability to do different upgrades directly to the Camp Decoration skill and then making those upgrades either free or very very cheap in order to encourage people to properly customize their compound. This could be combined with the 'TAKE MY MONEY!' option below with a few 'premium' floors and facades. --Bri

Can we bring back the "Paint" option on compound buildings ? IMO this was really nice looking --Asnath 17 April 2014 (EST)

TAKE MY MONEY!

Nobody wants ATITD to become Pay to Win with sold resources etc but the ability to go to a webstore and buy a) cornerstones and b) a KITTY would be awesome. Also, I am pleased the subscription may be dropping to $12 per month; if you offered 12 months for $100, I'd be inclined to buy that if I got something. I don't want something that's a pain in my rear ("Now you can paint your compound! You just need to accumulate 3,000 annoying resources and lean to mix paint!") but something like... a pair of statues, or clothing options, or a frog that hops around your CP or... umm I don't know actually but I am sure people will have suggestions. --Eimear

Longer term subscriptions are offered during the pre-order time generally... (I dont think that a telling has ever NOT had them once available.) They usually do come with some perks, (I need to see what has already been offered, that makes the decision easier for me :-) ) As for a store for the added things, it is very likely that I will do something like that, I just dont know how fleshed out that I can have it prior to the start of T7... --Pluribus 20:20, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Here is the info on 12 Month Prepay. Camp decoration is... meh, and has to be super cost-inefficient. I'd rather get a pack of decorations I could place and move myself, like I dunno... two lion statues and a six pack of un-breedable, unique flowers. And a camp frog! Or a wandering sheep! Or a staked camel for the lawn! (I really want a pet, can you tell?) --Eimear Can I second the pet frog? --StarGazeR (+1 blondie) Rabbits! --GHawkins

• It would be kind of fun to have random spawns of sheep. movable deco sounds difficult, though because it's something gm's do. It would be pretty cool if we could get to personalize our camps more with deco. Aww, "un-breedable...flowers" sounds a little bit sad because it's nice to share flowers and there are people who do amazing things with flower breeding.

• Gift subscriptions are something that maybe could be thought about. Many friends have helped others in giving a month of a game. An extension of that might be nice ( like the 3 month, 6 month, 12 month packages). This was part of the chat with Pluribus but I thought i'd add it here to make it more centralized.(blondie, march 23,2014)

• Honestly I'm a fan of being able to buy things in games, things that improve life but don't give a huge advantage. Right now when people want an advantage they buy it with mules, the advantage of mule(s) can be huge, especially when you consider things like offline chores and 2nd computers with macros! I dont' want to see people being able to buy resources but things like cornerstones, pets, maybe short term buffs?, camp decorations... imagine being able to buy a 7 end incense type buff early in the telling. It would be awesome esp in the smaller regions when getting enough people to dig is really hard (impossible!). Something I'd love to see considered is an ownership flag for controlling space, strictly limited.
  • I'd have to disagree with an early game 7 end incense buff being purchasable. That is quite the advantage, especially early on. I'd prefer whatever is sold be kept to cosmetics and entertainment. --Bri

• A monthly sub maybe what's required to keep the server on-line, but the fact is that there are loads of games that have Free-to-Play options (F2P). ATITD is a niche game but still needs to compete with F2P elsewhere. Perhaps this is the time to review options for different sorts of subscription.
  • Current Subscription Option: Month to Month, Quarterly, Annual
  • F2P Option: F2P Pure and F2P "Gold Level" with a purchase of some item(s).
    • F2P pure: unlimited access to L1-L5. No sub, no cornerstone, no tests other than what's available at L5. No advancement and no increase in stats other than what's available at L5. No Off-Line items. Cost is: Free.
    • F2P Gold: Allow a one time purchase of a single (1)cornerstone. Access to L1-L10 with tests include for those levels. Stats are +2 tiers max. Allow selection of one (1) offline item to be earned. Cost is: $40.00 one time fee.

The upgrade path from F2P to Subscription would enable all the features of Subscription

The downgrade path from Subscription to F2P Gold (because they bought a sub once) would strip that player of all items, titles, awards, etc that are L10+. Players re-subscribing would have to re-earn those missing items from scratch.

disclosure: without an F2P option I cannot afford to play ATITD. I would be OK with buying a single cornerstone, and 1 skill like blacksmithing or cooking (I'm terrible at both :) ). -- Zhukuram 13:42, 18 April 2014 (EST)

New items, changing some existing items

• Moveable camels (blondie, march 26,2014)
• Male camel pheromones should be called hormones. (Koinif 4/10/2014)
• More flowers and flower types (also, can they be released earlier or what about bringing back odd weeds? We used to be able to find Sandblooms randomly when examining odd weeds. That was fun and added the element of surprise. (blondie, march 26, 2014) +1 Porthos
• Bring back the look of some of the buildings. Alembics, Old upgrades to guild halls (that used to be camp deco skill, i believe that skill has been broken/not usable for more than one telling), modern sheep farm currently looks the same as a sheep pen, the toxin kitchen and chem lab look exactly the same (blondie), +1 Jaylenaeybarre,
• can tents be made guildable? (it's probably a long-shot, but i figured i'd ask--blondie)
• Airships to be flown by more than one person. I'm terrible at maneuvering airships, a co-pilot might make flying them easier. (blondie)
• Can we upgrade boxes, chests rather than have to rebuild every time we want to change the size of a storage item with a compound? (We used to be able to do that in t1----blondie 00:54, 27 March 2014 (EST) +1 Porthos
• Royal Sap - New item. Here's my take on this . . . swelling up a cactus to over 70 units would cause the cactus to start producing royal sap. The use would be for incense. My complete suggestion is that incense would get a bonus of 25 points (can be adjusted later by vote) for each pass in school of Harmony. The negative effect of incense would be reduced by 1/2 if royal sap was used, instead of normal sap. (Koinif 4/10/2014).
• Rugs could be a new item using wool and silk, used as a camp decoration possibly using mosaics (Cymber 4/23/2014)

New seeds

Egyptians also grew beans, lettuce and lentils and figs as fruit , they could be used in cooking, as a part of the cooking skill, offerings to various gods, offering at the funeral temple .... (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 25, '14)+3 blondie, Porthos, Asnath

Important information disclosure

• Bring back more player ranks/titles. We used to be able to choose what title was displayed when people info-ed us. Eg: blondie, Sage of Art, Rabble, Oracle of Worship or Rabble, Student of Architure. (blondie--march, 26,2014)
• To assist new players or mentors can harmony introduction titles be visible by info-ing a player? It may be too much to add more than one title or to add a tab (similar to the acro, guilds, notes tabs) showing which of these the player is. Examples of titles: Grandson of Oracle, Legacy of Sage.
• If someone is a GM or a Dev, can it be displayed when we info that name? (blondie--march, 26,2014)

Incense Improvement

In my time I only recall one person experimenting & using incense. It seems like it has great potential to be useful in early-mid Tale. It always seemed extraordinarily rare. Does it need to be simplified? Is it just not fun? Is it just a lack of research as compared to cooking ingredient traits? tehm 3:51, 26 March, 2014 (EST)

It's a forgotten knowledge. The instructions on how to make it are in the T4 wiki, and there's even the long-burning (I think portable? It was meant to be portable) incense burner. It was going to be re-worked to a portable food-type-thing in T4 but it never really happened. - Orrin

Hey there's the one guy I remember doing it :) I don't know the state of whether it is currently portable and worth the effort (meaningful stat bonus), but if not, I'd still love a retool on incense. tehm April 16, 2014

Fish Scales

From time to time I get frustrated or annoyed that you can’t do anything with fish scales. Did you know when you drop them, they are all different? I mean someone has designed what they look like, so it seems such a shame to not make better use of them.

Uses that I have heard discussed or volunteered in chats about this include:

• An ingredient for ‘isinglass’: Isinglass is a form of collagen that is derived from the swimbladders of fish (swimbladders/ scales – does it matter? Scales are high in collagen too). Isinglass finings are used in the British brewing industry to accelerate clarification of cask-conditioned beers. The finings flocculate the live yeast in the beer into a jelly-like mass, which settles to the bottom of the cask. Left undisturbed, beer will clear naturally; the use of isinglass finings accelerates the process and can be used to repair bad batches.

• The collagen content would also make them an alternative ingredient for a light glue - Fertiliser: ground and mixed with water, fish scales are a good soil conditioner and are an excellent source of nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium and other minerals. Possible use would be to ameliorate the affects of ground pollution but would need to think of a way to apply it.

• Natural ‘silver’ or pearlesence, comes from the guanine content (1 tonne of fish scales = 250gms of guanine according to http://www.ehow.com/about_5063644_fish-scales-used.html, which could be sued for decorative effects, jewelry, pyrotechnics or paint. (It’s what makes lipstick shimmery).

• Using them as they are in sculptures, as they are interesting shapes and colours
• For making a sort of light-weight ‘plastic’ that can be coloured and formed in moulds under pressure to make basic non-weight-bearing objects of any shape, including cups, jugs, bowls and plates, bangles, beads, sequins, etc. - Cate

Hints for *Almost* Achieving

If you get most events that lead to an Achievement right, but not quite, how about offering a note "You think you were on to something there..." For example, if reproducing a Cabbage Seed requires you to grow cabbage near 2 Herbs, if you do it near just 1 herb you might get the note. This would be a great motivator to keep doing something and it may also lead to more Ah-Has on how the world works. Also, there are many Achievers who would potentially play more to collect the Achievements. (Two more examples: "Hey is that Pluribus nearby? Have you met him yet?" Or After growing 666 Onions "Almost there!") tehm 3:58, 26 March, 2014 (EST) (+1 blondie)

• Speaking of achievements, bring back that long list of achievement progress we used to have/be able to check (similar to the list of herbs we've memorized) (blondie, march 26,2014), +1 (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 25, '14)= like we have now, on the old achievements list

Skills, Stats

• Eastern meditation has a timer, so we know it's possible to add a timer to our stat/skills menu. When we eat a meal can we get a timer for when food effect will wear off? I know there are alternatives like writing in main, writing in chat but when you're running around moving items or running for something you can easily lose track of time. A timer in stats would help as a warning to hurry up and get somewhere and keep you from getting stuck. --blondie 01:04, 27 March 2014 (EST)

• Eastern meditation is a very useful skill but sometimes you want to move items after the time has expired or you have to pause to plan how you want to move items and you lose the eastern meditation skill before you get a chance to finish. Can an advanced level of Eastern Meditation allow us to pause the timer and be able to restart later? --blondie 01:04, 27 March 2014 (EST)

Let me think on how to best represent the multiple stacked stats values with differing timeouts. Thank you for getting me thinking about this. It will get me thinking about correcting herb stacking. As for the turning off timers on eastern meditation... Plan ahead --Pluribus 08:47, 28 March 2014 (EST)

• ok, so eastern med timers off, you don't like it. a shame, but i can accept that. What about the adding a timer on our personal stats when we eat food? not possible either? Sometimes there's so much that we take notes on or have to remember and even when you plan ahead, things happen (eg: getting booted off the game, having to help/chat someone, having to go afk) so you lose track. --blondie 11:03, 29 March 2014 (EST)

== How about doing something special around certain periods, like the presents at Christmas - but make sure they do disappear after 3 months, and put in some more valuable stuff in them like a extra cornerstone (Jaylenaeybarre--

• Lots of games have buff timers. They show up similar to our action buttons (think clay,grass,water, mud etc) So if there was a 'buff' button for food with a simple graphic that display the time left or we can click on to know the length of time left on a meal that would be useful. With herb stacking, I can't remember the current system/bugs. Maybe, eating a herb can put a 3? min food timer up but that can be overwritten by eating food... However, food timers can't be overwritten or extended by eating herbs?

• Cooking and stat changes: Current the game doesn't differentiate between stats, only between herbs. The result is that as the tale goes on, end foods get lower and foc/con foods get higher. However since the T4 cooking nerf, the rate of change is so slow that the foc/con foods can't be pulled down short of a massive community effort, which was what irked Teppy in the first place. The exact value of cooking bonuses aside, shifting the stat balancing away from being 'per use of food item' to 'per use of stat per food item' would solve a few issues here. That way there will always be a low and high area for each food (thinking specifically of end food, which ends up in a low to moderately medium area due to use). Alternatively, swap some stats out so that end isn't so overused.

Old Player Retention, Incentives to bring back Older/inactive players

- I think it would be beneficial to maybe send an email to an inactive/quit player once their things are about to become up for claim/salvage. This would give them a chance to renew membership and play again, knowing they still had a chance to save all that they worked hard to build in the first place. ~ irrie

• Now that Pharaoh is out, please make sure to post an e-mail address through which we can get offline support (like forgotten password). Also, your new site's download link wasn't working last week! - tehm (April 4)

The new site is purely the beta for me to fix up the pages... Once I get the final go ahead from Teppy, atitd.com will get replaced with the atitd.pluribusgames.com content (The download link has paths set for the production site since it isnt the live site :-) ) Forgotten passwords will have a different solution soon. --Pluribus 00:28, 7 April 2014 (EST)

Unfortunately, the DPA laws have made it difficult for old players to return later in the tale. This is a plea more to the players than the devs to pass a better DPA law to remove clutter from Egypt but not punish the established players who leave the game for a few months. Something along the lines of granting exceptions to 'departed' status for players who have passed a certain # of tests or reached a certain level. DPA should be foremost about cleaning up messes left by trial and short-term players, not providing a free lunch to scavengers. --Blueshift 21:21, 15 April 2014

Instructional Help

I have to tell you that as a returning player, the lack of instructions is really, really striking. For the love of Pete, please put in a (?) help button on the upper right of the UI that open a search box that at the very least, searches the wiki. The wiki also needs to cover fundamentals better because, for example, I am doing Test of Reason now and:

• There are no illustrations for Empty Hand, Pathmaker, Gem Cutting Tables, or Venery. I still have no idea what a Venery is. (been putting lots of illustrations on those today)(Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14)
• The instructions for each are on how to build one, not how to play them. I only know what the heck I am supposed to do with a Pathmaker because Silden provided an illustration for hers.

These issues have to be even more profound roadblocks for genuinely new players. --Eimear

Eimear? you do know that the information on the wiki is made possible by players? There are many people who edit wiki out of the goodness of their heart? Anyone can use it, anyone can update it or add notations, guides, to it. There can always be improvements made but there's a lot of hours put into what is already in the wiki. (--blondie march 24, 2014)agreed (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14)

The point is that the game should not have instructions entirely dependent on the goodness of players' hearts. That's insanity. This suggestion is in the Player Retention section, and I am saying, first, that not having a help system in-game is really bad for player retention. Second, and less importantly, I think it's weird there is NO dev-provided documentation. --Eimear

• My point was that you shouldn't blame the wiki for not having ALL the information about the game. If you look back at wiki starting from t1 and even early in a telling how much information is not on the wiki, it's pretty great that we have people that edit, update, etc to the wiki. People work hard on that for no reason other than to help others. I don't know how we do get to keep the wiki up but I believe Egenesis does pay for its maintenance. Then it seems it's somewhat linked to Egenesis but Egenesis doesn't even officially endorse the wiki (I don't think). Maybe it would be a good idea to link the wiki to the game. Even possibly have an option to link from within the game (I mention this because i've seen it in one or two other games, with my limited gaming knowledge). Maybe that would make it better for players with little knowledge of the game. It may also make it better for copying over information from the game to the wiki (thinks like inventories in chests, thistle reqs). But I think the wiki is not something so much in the dev's control (or something the dev is largely involved in). It is player run. So it's up to players to upkeep it. (blondie)
• The things that Kartal says make some sense in the way the game has been running and I don't find it to be the worst thing. There is still a lot of information on wiki and there are still people who, within the game assist new players. There are communities in place, mentoring, mega guilds that assist new players. In addition, we have microphones, regional channels that assist players. I do think we should have welcome island return (that was a good place for mentors to get to mentees without having to travel all over egypt, making mentoring more convenient) (blondie).

• Maybe another resource can be made to assist new players outside of the wiki. We don't really seem to a place to go to (wiki is one place everyone seems to go but it's vast enough that some people can get lost in it trying to find something specific)so everyone can be updated about changes or things going on, aside from looking at logs or asking around hoping to find someone who knows what's going on. System is a bit crowded and adding updates might get spammy or scroll a lot of information away. One thought I had was making a facebook page/group for people to ask questions or for files, pinned posts that gives us updates about the game and people can ask questions and be helped even if other people are not logged on to the game or if people are having issues with the game. I know we have irc but IRC is a bit intimidating from when I've been in there. I know not everyone has facebook but one of the facebook groups that's related to Egypt has been active to some extent (unfortunately, they also talk about other games, but it's not my group, i'm just an invited guest and it does seem to be for egypt refugees). I have been able to get messages through to gms, through devs and between players to help out with the game. So maybe that's one resource we could cultivate. (blondie, march 24, 2014)

The lack of information is by design, for better or for worse. Moving forward it might wise to provide the basics, especially when it comes to the interface and customization. But when it comes to tests and the like most everything should still be mostly a mystery. Yes there probably should be some basic guide as to how to play empty hand, or design it. But if everything is given to you, then there is no need for player interaction, which is the core of this game. --Kartal 03:18, 24 March 2014 (EST)

I definetely agree with Kartal, imo there are already so many good guides on the wiki (even French)- btw, everygame out there uses wiki to explain about the game, I mean if you really want everything explained from A-Z and back, then maybe one should look out for another game - I mean I used half a tale to learn loads of things, read wiki, tried stuff myself and the next tale I was ready to play full on, but even now there are still things that I don't understand - although again, there is a guide on wiki about the keyboard shortcuts/commands - maybe should be on the tutorial too: to move: point/click your mousebutton somewhere on the screen , F3 opens your map, how to join national chat/bazar, red dots: schools, green dots: unis, do /info to see someones info (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 28, '14)

Echoing what blondie said, there is no 'GO HERE FOR HELP' flashy thing. The best way to get people into the game is to get them involved, which means getting them hooked up with *people*. WI was alright for that, but there needed to be a way for new people to call in if no players were present, a 'press here to request a mentor'. Ideally I'd like to see a 'new player' channel which standard players can respond to, maybe with the need for you to have passed all your initiations or such before you can join? Saying 'go to the wiki is ok, but having a person make that connection to another is still the best resource you can give them.

• once you make a new char, you do get a bit of help (on top of your window)= the tutorial, but couldn't there be on the 'welcome to Egypt' things to do: as last one, check the wiki, or put the mainwiki page there - it doesn't have to be part of the 'welcome to Egypt', but just to mention it?

or put it on your player options or utily? (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 24, '14)

• I feel like my basic point is not being well made or well understood. I am not dissing the wiki. The wiki is great. I am saying that the primary help system for the game should not be both entirely player-developed and entirely unconnected from the UI. The game needs a basic in-game help system. This seems like fundamental customer service to me. (Eimear)

• Having played the early stages of several tales, but not the late stages, I'd still love help on many types of Tests. Going back to the topic of Mentorship earlier, why *not* encourage people to share knowledge in-game by giving a player 1 Mentorship token (to give to a Mentor) any time they pass one of the 14 (or start with 7 and go to 14 later) least completed tests in the tale (turn this award on 2 months into the tale). You could always give that token to the player whose wiki explanation helped the most. Also, One-on-One dialogue would help many people when the wiki just doesn't seem clear (especially those who don't have English as a first language). tehm 3:30, 26 March, 2014 (EST)

• tehm, that sounds more like something players could do, though, not something that a dev controls/can improve. I do like the idea giving some kind of token in game, for mentorship or for something else for helpful wiki explanations. I do see the point Eimar is making but also Kartal's about the "mystery" in the game from the devs/egenesis. To get something like what Eimar is asking sounds like a big change/addition to the game, is my only concern. We are asking Pluribus for a lot of changes but I suppose it would give him something to think about in the long term. Maybe there are suggestions as to other type of tutorials that are simple and can be easily added to the game (rather than sending people to wiki)? (blondie, march 26,2014)
• What if Mentors could enter searchable keywords/checkboxes somewhere and players could search that database to find someone who is interested in Mentoring in that field. (ex: new player, scarab, cartouche, fishing, cooking) tehm 11:34, 26 March, 2014 (EST) (+1 blondie)

• Encourage YouTube tutorials/walkthroughs with actual game footage/direction. It's kind of crazy that in this age we're still using screenshot images. Maybe each month you can give bonus mentorship points or 1 month of subscription for the top 2 video tutorials. In addition to teaching, the videos may also help attract new players tehm-- March 28, '14

• • tbh there is a videoguide about doing cc, well for me that didn't make me any better about it, but the moment another player showed me how he did it, I understood it - but then again we are back to the same issue, that people have to find/look to the youtube tutorials - is same issue as looking at the wikiguides
    • This is kind of like saying "fax me your signature". Yes it works, but it is outdated and e-mail is vastly preferred tehm-- April 4

• • • • Personally, I cant stand this trend of video "help". While yes, SOME videos can be extremely helpful, it seems it only applies to a very limited number of subjects. It feels like 99&% of the time the videos are utterly useless. I don't need to watch a two minute video to change my video settings, or watch a poorly edited or narrated video to grow flax or god forbid, 200 videos on the proper foraging method for herbs. While I am using mostly non real examples here. I feel that its a catch-22 encouraging videos for a reward. It would likely produce some useful videos, but I suspect it would also produce far more of the type that would be far better suited as a text entry on a wiki or forum. Pathfinders for example, both a properly made and detailed video may be helpful, but a simple text version (with screenshots) would be far more helpful as a reference guide. I doubt many people want to have to constantly bounce back and forth through video timestamps to try to see out if the blue dot needed two lines and then a turn, or a turn after the dot. However, I do agree that more videos would help with advertising and possibly getting new players in the game. Obviously people also learn in different ways, so as I've said before I'm not totally against videos, but I'm not so sure that integrating it into a core game test as suggested would be in our best interests, it could however be an interesting option as an event, where Egypt votes on the 'best' of the videos submitted, and the winner could receive something to that end. --Kartal 14:32, 4 April 2014 (EST)

Firepit

To grill veggies, we can only do 20 veggies or fish/sharpened stick, that is a very low number. (+1 blondie)

That should be raised to at least 100/sharpened stick, or we should be able to put more sharpened stick at once on the firepit. (Jaylenaeybarre-- march 26, '14)

I want to make camel jerky in the firepit.

Wine Notebooks

How about having 7 wine notebooks? (this was probably originally intended a long time ago?) Ideally, the devs should check to make sure it is actually possible to complete them. Blueshift (+3 blondie, kyline, Porthos)

• Tale 6 is older than 2 years and if it ends in June/July of this year we won't be able to complete Wine book 5. There'd probably have to be a big chance to winemaking? to be able to get 7 Wine books. Ask Rabble, he loves doing wine stuff. I do like the 7 idea since Teppy likes the number 7 and this would be Tale 7. (blondie)

Project Management Adjustment

Test of Towers is available at Level 5, but the second rank of Project Management (which allows you to build Medium Construction sites and actually participate) is not available until Level 7. Rank 2 of Project Management should be adjusted to being available at Level 5.

--GHawkins 20:28, 26 March 2014 (PST) This issue drives me crazy!(+1 blondie)(+1 Jaylenaeybarre)(+1 Kyline)

Chariot Stops/Building/Repair

Depending upon the number of players, the ability to initially build all chariot stops can be an issue. Suggest making it less expensive in numbers of votes, or else give players more votes to fix them. The other alternative would be to reduce the total number of chariot stops, but Egypt is a big place, so I wouldn't recommend that. --merek 18:05 PDT, 29-March-2014

• 1 vote + 1 more per point of Structure Repair could work (looking at the cost of that skill, it seems reasonable). Please don't reduce the number of stops! -tehm April 16

Thistle

Most in this time thistle growing is running with programm and macro. Without is difficult. My Idea will change that. The basic system can stay (building, tiks) but instead of Sun, Water, dung and Salpeter it takes now herbs as liquid manure. The herbs will count for every people different (like colors, but not calculable, only find out per trying). Herb rarities will decide, how many points a herb have. (for one vitamin or split on more vitamins?). A storage for maybe 5 or 10 Herbs will be good, otherwise peoples need macros again. Thistle growing should be only working at daytime, in twilight the tiks running slower. --Rosenfeuer 10:03, 6 April 2014 (+1 Porthos)

Research

I would like to see some way of making Research more of an Egyptwide activity. Either lower requirements that have to be met in each (or X number of regions) region to unlock, stacked bonuses for opening research in multiple Regions, or harder egyptwide requirements that can be contributed to from any region, or some combination - a hard egyptwide requirement, followed by an easier local requirement to unlock it locally. --BalourHotho,+1 ) +1 Jaylenaeybarre,

• The early/mid Telling tech battles are a staple of Egypt in my opinion and I would prefer them to remain. That said, I wholeheartedly approve of the idea of there being bonuses for techs that have been unlocked multiple times. That said, I don't see how that would work on some of the techs. --Bri

New Tech suggestion: Flax Experiments 1-7

• Being able improve flax early in the game will lead to less player stress and burnout and give them a technology that they can work on in the early game while exploring Egypt.

It would be a 7 step technology, with small improvements to the flax strains available. It is not designed to replace or even fast track crossbreeding when that becomes available. All ‘new’ flax strains can be with the minimum genetic material needed to reach the stats required. - Kyline

New flax strains suggested:

Tech	Name	Amount of Flax/Rotten	Watered?	Cost	Timeline
1	Horus’s Blessing	2 Flax, 1 Seed	N	Avail Flax seeds, Clay Mortars, Cactus Sap, Common Mushrooms	Start of Tale
2	Isis’s Seed	2 Flax, 2 Seed	Y	Avail Flax seeds, Clay Mortars, Cactus Sap, Common and a few uncommon Mushrooms
3	Osiris Reborn	2 Flax, 2 Seed	N	Avail Flax seeds, Clay Mortars, Cactus Sap, Common and a few uncommon Mushrooms
4	Thoth’s Creation	2 Flax, 1 Rotten, 2 Seed	Y	Avail Flax seeds, Mortar and Pestals, Cactus Sap, Common Herbs and Uncommon Mushrooms	Change from Clay Mortars to Mortar and Pestle (lvl 3 Carving skill required) will mean this is not able to be completed until Glass Blowing technology is available in Egypt.
5	Ra’s Light	2 Flax, 1 Rotten, 2 Seed	N	Avail Flax seeds, Mortar and Pestals, Cactus Sap, Common Herbs and Uncommon Mushrooms
6	Bastet’s Grace	2 Flax, 2 Rotten, 2 Seed	Y	Avail Flax seeds, Brass Pots, Cactus Sap, UnCommon Herbs and Rare Mushrooms	The addition of Brass Pots will mean this is not able to be completed until Advanced Metallurgy technology is available in Egypt.
7	Amun’s Celebration	2 Flax, 2 Rotten, 2 Seed	N	Avail Flax seeds, Brass Pots, Cactus Sap, UnCommon Herbs and Rare Mushrooms

• I can't say I like this. The whole idea of plant genetics is that it's in the players' hands to do this. You'd be removing rather than adding content IMO - Orrin
  • I think that it really depends - if we are getting crossbreeding earlier next Telling, then it really isn't required. If it is going to take us a few months... then having a slight upgrade we can invest into isn't really a bad thing. Or, from a slightly different angle - what if the genome for flax was made a bit more like that for flowers and each of these were a different 'strain' with its own benefits and weaknesses? It'd be more fun for crossbreeders and perhaps allow for some super breeds to be made... but by then it is mid to late telling and flax isn't as much of a concern as treated boards and alloys. It would actually let us keep our focus on new tech by, over time, reducing the flax timesink. -Bri
  • Orrin this would cut out maybe 2-4 days of actual xbreeding if these seeds where allowed to be xbreed at all. I happy with ANY improvement in flax seed rather than waiting 3-5 months for xbreeding to come out. Remember some tales it has taken us getting every single region's flowers unlocked before we get the last bulb for xbreeding. I don't know about you but I hate making flax 2 at a time with 1 seed for months with no improvements. My suggested best improvement is only a little better than double the orignal output and less than 3 times as good as the current strain found in egypt at present. I don't see how you can say I'm removing content at all.... -Kyline
  • I like this tech idea. There are various places in the game where a skill-based tech like crossbreeding or blacksmithing are unlocked and what was meant to be a gentle progression is a sudden cliff. We go from 2 flax/field to 7 flax/field and 1 seed/field to 3 seed/field almost overnight. Or 1 wood/tree to 5 wood/tree. It would be better if there were 7 'Flax Experiments' techs that led slowly increased flax production and ended with goods required for crossbreeding. Similarly, it'd be nice if there were 7 'Blacksmithing' and 7 'Advanced Blacksmithing' techs which let you create items of the given type from 3k to 9999 max quality respectively. This would give us gradually improving items over a period of time even if the ultimate quality is capped by skill when all techs are unlocked. Tallow 11:44, 24 April 2014 (EST)

Glass Blowing Improvements

Glass blowing is a skill that takes a lot of practice to learn, but scares off many people because that practice uses up a lot of precious materials. This tale, we asked Teppy to implement a glass recycling tech, where we could re-melt blown pieces into a glass bench. It would require 2 or 3 blown pieces to get 1 db of molten glass, and I'd suggest wine glasses, hookah bowls be meltable only to jewel glass, and all other pieces meltable only to soda glass (so as to not find a work-around for making normal glass from soda glass, basically). The upgrade could be something that must be constructed onto a bench to allow. Teppy vetoed the idea as a law (even though it had a TON of support) because it was more of a tech implementation. I'd really like to see this come into the game, so more people can learn this very hard skill without dedicating their lives to gathering glass mats.

--Avanya 21:21, 12 April 2014, + 1 Jaylenaeybarre,+ 1 Asnath

Ecology

Now I know that underneath there is a really really cool ecology system. Most of it we only see as mushrooms (and even then only a few of them in any number). What I'd like to see is a revamp of the ecology to make the layers public (so we can truly see the water levels and levels of pollution and nutrients). Then make it so that they can truly be affected. Growing a plant should take a toll on nutrients and water, this would lead to places such as aqueducts losing yield, which means that they need to be treated (Hey I found a use for dung and fish scales!). You can then make different plants grow best not only in locations but to a lesser degree on soil (and sand) conditions. This then also means that you could try and treat the surrounding land to bring specific mushrooms to an area (though this should be expensive to do, maybe a 'mushroom dope'?).

Events

There were long stretches of T5 and T6 that were devoid of events. Official events like 24 hr herb hunts, monument upheaval, cooking/smoking are some of my favorite parts of the game. I think these should occur with some regularity, ideally one event or so per week. These don't all have to be big events, there could be one or two big events per month and several smaller things like conflict tournaments in between. Also, Telanoc should be in charge of picking the prize list, especially for the monument upheaval event. --Blueshift 21:21, 15 April 2014

I greatly prefer events that don't favor the person who logs the most hours doing X. A 24-48 hour event where you could participate for up to 2-4 hours by starting a timer (say at a Uni or Essence of Harmony) would be cool though. Instead of always doing one event during US hours and 1 during European hours. The timer would be like for that Test that has you identify X plants in a short time. -tehm April 16

• In the past we had at least one occassion we had some conflict events running over a couple of days. Those seemed to work because there were divided into three 8 hour blocks to cover all time zones (as an example: 3pm EST- 11pm EST friday, 12am Saturday-8am EST, 9am-5pm EST saturday). You could also do a longer event that covers a lot of the weekend or another event that covers a 24 hour period. Probably it would be better to have events broken up into 8 hour ones to cover different time zones per block (or even 2-4 events). We don't often have long events that last 24 hours anyway (for variety's sake, i don't think it's the worst, as long as we have other events done differently). You could also do a herbing event that lasts 24 hours and then have an herbing event that lasts 8 hours (going with the 8 hour blocks I mentioned before). --blondie 10:13, 17 April 2014 (EST)
• I do like the "one event..per week" idea. That would allow more of a chance to give different stretches of time events and perhaps similar events so more people can get a chance to play or to get prizes. --blondie 10:15, 17 April 2014 (EST)

• There are 2 sorts of events in game: Official Events, run by the controller which has an UI menu, and Player Created/Run events.

• Controller events are coded events, with fixed set of options and no recovery if they bork.There are some options for rewards but those are limited to what's coded. Telanoc cannot alter the reward once the controller is running other than back-end tweaks. What's in the list is what you can get. The UI Menu is a mess and changing prizes requires a lot of tweaking and basically removes all pervious configurations so if you change a prize those have to be redone. You can tell because of the typos in the event text; to fix a typo or change/add a prize requires a re-setup of the entire event. Events in this category are: herb hunts, monument upheaval, cooking/smoking, etc..
• Player Run designed and managed by players themselves. The "long stretches of no events" is primarily from event team burn out and quibbling about prizes and issues of "who can exploit the system faster than others". Events in this category are: Airship racing, Ore Cart Relay and Herb Dump, etc.

In the case of controller events, if they don't bork, they run but mostly OK but a lot of the time they bork. There are only a few that actually worked decently enough that the GMs didn't have to work days on days to sort out the problems. See: "Joe got 2X Item and I got None" or the "All the prizes went to Joe!!". You can add in all the expletive deletes you want that go with those statements.

In the case of player run events, without the support of Nikara, when I approached her late in T6, with the idea of Pharaoh's Garden, there would have been none. Players cannot "conjure" prizes or rare/new items, this requires a certain level of database access. Nikara was fantastic about conjuring things like fishing poles and other rare items.

• Is it possible to make a location for events in a place like the conflict arena? Like a pandora you can warp to? The added chariot stop at Memphis is very useful but some people don't have much time or tt to go to Memphis and some events do involve players visiting Memphis several times for an event. --blondie 14:55, 19 April 2014 (EST)
  • In the case of Controller Events like Conflict Events those have hard-coded options for warpage. For Player Events, we do not have the ability to set warp points unless a GM assists. Only GMs can build or open portals and then they are for specific times.

For historical purposes some history of Pharaoh's Garden is in order:

I approached Nikara who is a GM and World Builder with my ideas of an airship racing venue with options for multiple games and races for those with and without airships. We reviewed the required space for racing and she checked into the existing landscape and found nothing that would meet the requirements (want to run to the NW corner of Egypt for a high peak? :)) She decided that the only location suitable for the venue is where it is currently located in the SW corner where there are few activities (except fennec hunting) and no other obstacles. There was no Chariot Stop and you had to run over land for about 20 minutes to get there. Later on she found an "unused" chariot stop from an older version of the game and was able to plant it outside of PG. Players opened the CS like all other CSes get opened although Nikara was able to conjure some "incentives" for players to donate to the repair. While it might seem that as a GM she could just conjure a fully operational CS, they cannot do it. They can only go by what's available at their level of access inside the EGenesis organization and I can tell you that GMs cannot alter or change code, they cannot fix broken controllers or alter the scheduling options or anything on that level. We had to work with what Pharaoh had given her as abilities and what we could do as players. The Flight Deck was all done with mats donated by myself and other members of the event team. The drop warehouses where the same. Later on, Nikara was able to get more authorization to conjure more items as needed (like the ore carts) but at the beginning it wasn't so.

While it may not be all that helpful for players to understand this history, it's important for those looking for more events to take up the mantel and learn what's possible inside the framework and what requires direct intervention from programmers. Remember we had no Pluribus or Pharaoh for a very long time, no one we could get to work on the broken stuff. If Pluribus spends some of his valuable and much in demand time, to fix some of the Automated Events then more of those could be run. However, atm for T6, you cannot fly an airship inside a conflict shire nor run foot races. Conflict Shrines also require building to enter them and at start of tale some are not made public use.

Controller Events are static. The Herb Hunt is what it is. The Phoenix Race is what it is and if you mess up the options you get some odd race conditions. If they bork in the middle or end, there's nothing a player or even a GM can do. There are log files but if they get messed up then there's nothing for Nikara to go by. She did awesome work and long hours trying to get prizes to players just based on the log files when those event crashed. I don't think very many players understood how much Nikara gave to the game and the hours and hours she spent trying to make "something" happen for those left. There were a number of notable players on the Event Team from time to time and assisted with testing, and monitoring and all sorts of backend work to make some of those things that seem "easy" to happen at all, but Nikara was the key person and you will need someone like her for T7, who can stay the distance and who doesn't get burned out.-- Zhukuram 11:02, 23 April 2014 (EST)

Also it takes a LOT of energy to run these events. They are not self-running, they require weeks or months of preparation to setup, test manually (I flew a lot of trips to the islands in the lake to make sure you could land on them), and then on event day to run, monitor, try to deflect exploits, and hand out prizes.

If you want more events, you will have to find a way to stop Burn Out. The players at the beginning of the tale burned out, those who tried in mid-tale burned out, and I burned out too. I just do not have the resources and energy to shepherd an event solo.

If you want 1 event a week, you are going to either have a lot of automated events or deal with event organizer burn out issues.

fwiw: I have a half-dozen events in the queue but they aren't happening with me: see Burn Out

• • • Increasing player involvement in events or assistance from Egenesis (sorry, it's still Egenesis or is it called something else?) could be something to help with player burn out. It could be tricky because that would probably prevent those people from participating in events, but maybe there could be a rotation so people feel like they can contribute , participate and not always be the organizers. Many players also have ideas for events, there could be assistance from the dev/gm team provided for those. --blondie 14:55, 19 April 2014 (EST)

re: Organizers participating in events: This can be a sticky area and the events I arranged, I tried to make it possible for some members to participate but sometimes this is not possible because they know the design of the event ahead of time and might have an "unfair" advantage over others. We tried to limit this and create events with multiple sections for winning or where the outcome of prizes was by lottery or other distribution method. Player Run events require more supervision and directions on how the event goes down and I wrote loads here on the wiki about the events and backend management. Not all organizers of events did this though, but I was quite through about it (or tried to be) and gave follow ups and winners lists. One thing that did happen 100% of the time is SETESH made his presence known. Nearly every event (player or controller) SETESH was in the mix creating chaos and often we had to "fix stuff on the fly". If your event team is off flying they cannot be at the Flight Deck ushering in new players or loading up prizes or /roll for the lottery.

Along with this goes the problem of players like TME, who is a fantastic player, a GM, and has vast resources they can rely on. They skew the awards so badly that you really have to do a lot of thinking to avoid them crushing other players. TME, like other players can and does participate in the events and TME had no knowledge ahead of time about their constructs as TME wasn't on the Events Team, but their access to materials makes them nearly impossible to beat. We kept close watch on how the event was unfolding to monitor the progress of all players and this requires someone like Nikara along with boots on the ground to do. In short, many times Event Team members could not participate and they were OK with that as our goal was to make something fun happen.

Some Player Events followed the Controller Events and that made things doubly interesting. We ran Herb Hunt (Controller) followed by Herb Dump (Player) for a hybrid game set. Sometimes we could make events like orchid breeding which we ran over a weekend and then had a round of voting. The voting was in 2 parts: a secret judge knowledgeable about the outcomes and popular votes. This takes a huge effort to put together. It needed a lot of thought because you cannot just build 20 greenhouses in 1 day without an awful lot of sheet glass on hand not to mention the Nuts Essences and bulb types to hand out.

When the games allowed for Event Team Members to play along, we did and when it did not either that player dropped out of the event team or didn't participate. -- Zhukuram 11:07, 23 April 2014 (EST)

• • • Zhukuram, I'm sure players are appreciative of the Events team (even though it doesn't always seem that way when events have problems). I think a lot of can sympathize with burn out, too. It would be good to get bugs or if it's something within coding that could be fixed, maybe that would make it easier on those who do help out with events. Aren't there some events that run, if not automatically, at least with less work on the part of the event organizer? We could have those events more often, perhaps. The more complex ones maybe once a month or once every 2 months. Just throwing out some ideas. I enjoyed the cartouche building events, some of the conflict ones, the heptathlon ones? I thought those were the easier ones to run because items go into player's pocket (but maybe they involve a lot more work). You could let us know what events are the simpler/easier ones to run. --blondie 14:30, 19 April 2014 (EST)

fwiw: During the time I was working with the Events Team there were 2 versions: The Official Events Team as setup by EGenesis and my participation as an "unofficial" member of the team. The "Official" team bailed early on in T6, this was when the great hiatus happened. We've covered some of the possible reasons why they left but they were gone when I approached Nikara with my ideas. My participation was not "official" by my choice. I had some access to things like the Events Mic; Nikara was the one who handled the backend details and often needed Pharaoh's OK before we could proceed. On average there were 3 people running the backend. Nikara, Hanid or Rabble and myself. Occasionally, someone would come to us with an idea and if Nikara got the OK from Pharaoh we did it.

There were ideas put forth by players who did not understand that we had no way to implement them and they got rather unhappy. One proposal would have required a code change to the programming and we had no way to do it. It was a PVP sort of event which would start as a fishing derby but for each fish you caught you would deplete the oceans until they went sterile and there would be no more fish in Egypt for the rest of the tale. While it was not the kind of event I personally like, but that wasn't why it didn't happen. It wasn't done because we could not alter the backend code for the following concept:

If Global_FishLootTableDropRate GreaterThan Zero then

If CatchFish then Global_FishLootTableDropRate-1

If Pluribus is able to devote time to implementing these sorts of events, that would add more variety and I certainly heard from more than one player that they wanted more "conflict style" events that had "no resolution" and "exposed greed vs altruism" were "greed would win" every time and that T6 was far too "bland" in this area.

fwiw: I remember the plague and how that went down and experienced similar events in SWTOR (I wondered if Apophis got a job with them as it was equally poorly implemented). I made it clear that should such a PVP event come into play the person proposing the event would have to be the up-front guy and I would assist on the backend as needed. Aside from the programming problems, no one wanted to be Up Front and take the flack for no more fish in Egypt.-- Zhukuram 11:02, 23 April 2014 (EST)

There is a side issue of the Calendar Schedulers. If you have seen Official Events going on/off the Game Calendar, it's due the scheduler being a mess too. The Player Scheduler isn't much easier, it costs papy paper with increasing costs as you run more events, and cannot be changed once it's submitted. --Zhukuram 13:21, 18 April 2014 (EST)

• • • The ingame calendar does seem to need to be more user friendly. I'm referring to the papy paper one since I don't know how egenesis puts events up. But they probably could both use improvements. Remember, though, that the papy paper events listings are a bonus for building megas. We do have quite a few megas (in RP alone, we have nearly half a dozen, i think) so cost will stay near 50 papy paper if you don't frequent the same mega. Maybe cost could be changed if someone is posting more than one event or a discount after your tenth posting (think Subway sandwhiches)you get one free. I know that for festival people post 2 calendar events per week (costs covered by donations) but it's a really great way to get player participation and awareness. Perhaps there could be another way to get messages onto the calendar. I was thinking that at the beginning of the game some communication or some community event listing would be helpful and/or fun and it could be put in the calendar (before we get megas or instead of making it a bonus for megas). --blondie 14:55, 19 April 2014 (EST)

Chemistry Lab

Suppose you want to make lube oil - need Osiris compound extract. (and in case your recipe doesn't exist you can make another extract to reset for Osiris but then again it is a lot of work)

• find recipe
• req from recipe --> check essences list for spirits needs
• make essence compound (only get 6 drops instead of 7 that are needed)

Means you have to do the above again

• make the extract --> only get 3 dbn (for 1 set of lube oil you need 5 dbn)

Means you have to do all the above again

• you only get 6 lube oil for 5 Osiris compound extracts, and most stuff wants 10 or 15 lube oil, so again need to redo all of the above double, triple ...

SUGGESTION 1 : add to the chemlab, make Osiris, geb, ... extract: 1 batch, 10 batch, 100 batch = same as on the paint lab - because as it is now it is a lot of work for only a very tiny amount of outcome Jaylenaeybarre +1 (tehm don't know anything about this, but that sounds annoying)

• Not 100 batch!! 1 batch, 3 batch, 5 batch would be impressive enough. Too many batches and you just get the 'easy' recipes maxed.

• after the above comment, I still find it very low, because although I wrote the above in 8 lines or so, it is a huge work to make it - so I might suggest then 1, 10, 25 Jaylenaeybarre

Chemistry Product Rebalancing

There should be some rebalancing of the products of chemistry. Osiris' extract is the most useful even though it isn't the hardest to get. This is because lubricating oil is the one building material that you can only get via chemistry. I recommend adding uses for the lesser gear oils, perhaps adding them as requirements for the upgrades while lubricating oil is required for creating a building. Tallow 11:10, 18 April 2014 (EST)

In addition, if there were a way to use the rarer extracts for lesser recipes, that would make them more useful. If Thoth's could be used to make 9 lubricating oil in a batch instead of 6. And Ra's could make 13. That would increase their usefulness greatly. This could be done by adding a 'dilution' option that transforms rarer extracts into more common ones at a fixed ratio in exchange for other mats. Tallow 11:10, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Detonation boxes are underpowered for the price (huge investment in learning the skill, then it is still faster to pound gravel). Tallow 11:10, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Mushroom Potency

Quick backstory: Every cooking item is in one of two groups, herb or not herb. This determines their starting potency, and herbs are considerably higher than not herbs. For mushrooms this is a pain, as they're considerably rarer than camel meat and veggies, some are rarer than most herbs. But they're never any good for cooking cos they're 'veggies'. I'd like to see a rework of this area, either make mushrooms 'herbs', make the rare ones 'herbs' or make a new starting position for them.

Mutagenics and Genetics

Genetics is extremely complicated, which is a large enough hurdle for participation. However, there are a number of issues and requirements that make it prohibitively expensive to work on. This tale, a few players spent the entire tale collecting resources (mushrooms) so that, when the time came, they would be able to work on this technology. This is not feasible for most people, and really highlights just how crazy the requirements of resources is! Here are a number of proposals to fix things, and make this exclusive game feature open to many more players.

1. Mushrooms

Mutagenics needs all mushrooms in great quantities. With a smaller player base, the rare mushrooms are VERY hard to find, and impossible to "stock up" on in great quantities. Since its really hard to make the mushroom spawns larger or more frequent (or so I've been told), lets reduce the number of mushrooms that the many steps require!

• Reduce the maximum number of a given type of mushrooms in a mutagenics toxin recipe to 4 or 5. Currently, the max is 7, which means it can require 28 of a rare mushroom just to test the recipe at the university! We have seen this repeatedly hold up recipe unlocking at universities, for months at a time, because of the shortage of mushrooms.

• Revelation Solvents are hardly used, and a wasted tool. Originally, they were used to map out genomes in earlier tales, but now we use other less direct methods to work with genetics. Why? The mushroom costs of Solvents are crazy! Its hard enough that the piece of genome revealed by them is random (and often repeats early attemps). But the mushrooms needed to create the precious solvents are rare, and the number of produced solvents is small. If we change the mushroom types to common ones and either decrease the number of mushrooms used to make the solvent, or increase the solvent quantity produced, it would make this technology useful again. This would be a HUGE help! Currently, we either use NUTS to randomly crossbreed, or we use mutagens to slowly manipulate from a known starting plant. If solvents were more available, we could use NUTS first to get close (much cheaper), then map out the genome we've arrived at with solvents, and then finally use mutagens to perfect it. We need the solvents to bridge the gap between our two ways of genetic manipulation, and right now its just not feasible.

([Revelation Solvents])

2. Molecular Balance

Again, a tool that is useful in theory, but toooo expensive to be practical. I originally thought it was proposed (end of tale 4 technology) to determine the length of the genome. Right now, it just compares the lengths of two different genomes. Still useful, but less so. However, it requires an EXPENSIVE revelation solvent (see above paragraph) and a pretty rare herb -- King's Coin, just for one comparison. This will be a lot more useful if we fix the solvent issue, but also make the herb required something a little more accessible and common.

3. Research Costs / Duplicate grapevines and flower types

In order to open all the fancy genetics, we have a lot of techs to research, and we need to open them in as many regions as we can. After working really hard to open a new plant strain, it is SOOO infuriating and frustrating when the university just offers a duplicate of a strain that is already available. This happens more than once, and the more expensive and involved the tech, the more the researchers are deflated (and sometimes quit). Is there not a way to make sure a new released plant is NOT one previously opened? This small change would make a HUGE difference.

Even with that change, the research costs are all still reflective of a population in the thousands. I'd love to see Egypt get back to that, but as it stands, these costs are very rough on the people that work towards these goals. Teppy had agreed to compromise and lower some of the particularly tough requirements, like mushrooms, herb seeds, and fish (now that we have so many types of fish, the "old type" ones can be slower to catch!), but of course those changes never came. These requirements can really bottle up research for months...and adjusting them somewhat could really help! (I"m not saying make it easy, just make it feasible). I'd be happy to give suggestions for which techs and requirements in particular have been painful in the past and would be great to be adjusted.

4. Flower Reproduction

We need to make a lot of flower bulbs, both for donation for techs, but also for use for testing and for the Test of Festivals. There is one technology promised to the players from the end of Tale 4 that is still not implemented, and would help the flower community greatly -- a one dose, long acting fertilizer. Obviously, it would need to be costly, but it would be a great value to fertilize a flower, and then know in x number of days, you will have a bulb. This is especially a nice way to enable players with less time to contribute to this research. (Not everyone can log in every two hours to fertilize their flowers!)

There was also talk of having a new system implemented to spread flower fertilizer in an area--a fertilizer sprinkler system if you will. There was a lot of excitement about that possibility, but it too never came about.

5. New Technology Idea: Microscopy

I think a new technology would add a fun new dimension to the puzzling out of the genetics system. Specifically, something that lets us get a different piece of data to help us resolve a genome. I've nicknamed it Microscopy.

• It would be an upgrade to a chemistry lab (add a few cut gem lenses and other assorted bits)
• it would require using glass slides (maybe break one glass sheet into 50 slides at the lab)
• It would use Dyes that would be made at the chem lab in bulk (maybe from certain fish scale colors)
• Different dyes would highlight different gene types, and the result of a test would be to determine how many of a specific gene are present in a genome. For example, a test for the Red gene on a Silken sea lily would tell us that there are 3 genes of that type total in the genome.

This would work well in conjunction with Revelation Solvents. It would be a great tool to determine genome length (just test for all gene types and sum the result), and also be helpful to determine if genes were eliminated or added in a NUTS cross (a great way to track changes!). I really think its important to NOT consume the plant that you are testing on in the process. I also think its a straightforward tool that the genetics community could make great use of.

I know I'm asking for a lot of changes (most of them small), but they would add up to be a major help for this aspect of the game. Thanks. --Avanya 17 April 2014

I agree that it is pretty complicated to get into genetics and especially the research of mutagens costs too many mushrooms - at least too many rare ones. However I don't agree that we should bridge the gap between those 2 ways of crossbreeding easily. It shouldn't be easy to determine length and all genes and its order. Same for molecular balance, it was a very very useful skill and you should be thinking twice about using it.

About the bridge: Right now this is like the only restriction you have for using other seeds you don't crossbred and kept track of the genome itself. This tale i started to work myself into genetics and 'Java Taverns' actual provided almost all mutagens. I started to crossbreed using mutagens to keep track of the genomes length and its genes, after a whole weekend working on an all new flax strain (started with OE and NG ofc) my strain was the best in egypt and I felt kinda proud about it. ;-P I named it 'Java Taverns Fertility' and gave them out. Like a week later a better flax strain were made. I don't know this for sure but I really think they used my flax seeds and used them for random crossbreeding. Ofc the name didn't show anything about this... I know it's stupid but that actual made me kinda angry I gave my flax seeds out but anyway I knew I could easily do better because I know its genome.

So if we bridge that gap I would like to see an option if we want others be able to use those seeds theirself when naming it. I know this thought is kinda selfish and might cause some drama. Anyway it really is depressing working all that hard and then someone just get all your work for nothing - and I think everyone would like to see a bit drama in egypt ;P --Xerath 18 April 2014

Responding to Xerath-- Just a few things I want to point out. First of all, I can totally understand the disappointment when you work very hard with this system, usually for full days on end, and make something useful, and everyone takes it and uses it. It can feel thankless. But please remember that this system is purposefully so complicated, it relies on lots of people working hard together. Those mutagens you used? They were only available because of the months hard work of not just Orchid and her crew building the mutagen labs, but Renard's work (and other's) all tale long collecting mushrooms and unlocking recipes. And of course, lots more people had to tirelessly characterize those mutagens, so we'd all know what part of the genome they acted on. Imagine if they didn't share THAT data! Also, a good handful of people did nothing but donate to unlock all the techs to make it possible. And even before mutagenics opened, lots of people in egypt worked very hard to NUTS cross flax seeds for everyone to have. Its always fair game that they use each other's strains. If they get "beat", then they can use the new winning strain to regain the title, if you will. All the while, Egypt benefits. Its a competition that is good for everyone! And the personal reward lies in naming your own champion seed.

If we had a bridge to bring together our two ways of crossing things, it would greatly reduce the time and energy and materials needed to make a prize winning flax seed. Isn't that a win for everyone? And if you aren't the first to do it off a known base, you can always NUTS cross until you have a longer genome base, determine the new genome sequence, and then mutate further to get the new best seed.

Mutagenics is very much a community based research field. I've done my fair share for the past two tales, particularly aiming to unlock the Festivals test. Just trying to get a Giantx3 rose to open the test took weeks and weeks of long days and mutation attempts that were 40 or more swaps long each. Most people don't know that, and all the while there was lots of clammering to have the test open. Its a tale long struggle, honestly. What did I get for all my work? One hell of a sense of satisfaction!! I was proud when we opened the test, and got the flowers mutated for everyone. I guess people can use the genetics system for their own purposes only, and that's a valid choice, but I think that's no reason to NOT want to make it easier for everyone to use it for the good of the community. --Avanya 18 April 2014

At the higher reaches of this game, it definitely becomes a cooperative effort. I never met you, Xerath, but I spent a lot of time and effort working with others to breed the thousands of beetles and gather other mats to unlock mutagenics and crossbreeding and unlock mutagens. I'm glad I was able to contribute in a small way to making the awesome seed that you made. I might try out that part of the game myself next tale. I support Avanya's suggestions and anything else that will make the genetic part of the game more accessible and balanced. Tallow 10:44, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Long-Term Feature Requests

Hops

I had previously suggested this back in T2-T3 and it seemed to have a favorable response back then. As an avid home-brewer as well as someone who grows their own hops I think it would be quite interesting to be able to utilize them in game for beer and the like. Summarizing what I had suggested before. The 'hops yard' would be a permanent plantation housing the bines and main plant. I would think that up to 7 plants in a yard, allowing for different varieties. With a very tall trellis system made of rope for the bines (not vines!) to grow on. Growth and maintenance wise it would be very similar to grapes. Management of mites, wilt, training the bines, checking for readiness, as well as appropriate pruning of lower leaves to optimize production of the cones. Harvesting would cut down both the rope and bines, requiring it to be restrung before the plants could grow properly again. Manual separation of the cones from the bines would ideally require both focus and dexterity. Perhaps some sort of automated device could also be used, at the cost of overall quality of the cones. The cones would need to be properly dried, and we already have plenty of options for that. Crossbreeding would definitely play a role here, further enhancing the flavor or anti microbial properties of the hops. Likewise issues with cultivation such as contamination from male plants, poor growth management, or pollution could also effect the overall quality of the product. Beer flavor would be greatly enhanced, however there is a herbal/medicinal side that could also be explored. The overall benefit of hops would be a increased microbial resistance and longer storage stability in kegs. --Kartal 04:34, 24 March 2014 (EST)

Mead

As a novice mead-maker and beekeeper this is something else I would love to see in game. While my thoughts on this are not as fully fleshed out, the concept still stands. We wind up with such a surplus of honey in game it would be nice to have another use for it. With our already vast and varied herb system, as well as some fruits and veg there we should be able to attain many varieties of mead (There are over 40 variations of mead!) Fermentation and aging usually takes MUCH longer than wines, which may prove to be an issue if we move to a faster pace. But I'm sure a solution could be found. --Kartal 04:34, 24 March 2014 (EST)

• So perhaps something like a liquid lunch box that gets stronger the longer that is on the shelf and generally packs more of a punch? But perhaps at the cost of stronger and stronger stat penalties to other attributes and a much shorter duration. Lunchboxes would be for a wide range of stats that last a long time - mead would be for that fast one-off Herculean effort that requires only a couple specific stats? -Bri
• With so many varieties could make a mead book , like the winebook Jaylenaeybarre

mats that have sofar no use or hardly any use

Wool, wool cloth (except for Clay-Steeped Wool Cloth & upgraded thistle gardens)the wool cloth could be used instead of linen in certain buildings fi: like the welcome banner

Wool cloth, fine glass rods, glass jars, copper wire, and acid could be used to make a primitive battery. This could be used for fun (use it up to get the zap animation), or it could be used for some other purpose. Perhaps a single-use item that reset all of your attribute timers. Or it could reset the requirements at a chemistry lab. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Wool cloth could be required to make a medium construction site. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Wool cloth could be required to expand guild halls beyond a certain point. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Fish scales: could be used for the funeral temple too?

There must be something we can do with them ?

Looking forward to any ideas that might be put here :)Jaylenaeybarre

Fish scales could be ground into colored powder using a wooden pestle and flint. The powder can be mixed into White Raeli Tiles to make colored tiles (an alternate way to get a few of the rarer colors). Or it can be mixed with oil to as an alternative way to make paints. All this can be done at the 'Industrial Kitchen' building. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

I add : cobra venom, crushed eggshells, more uses for compost (blondie, march 25, 2014)

Wool or Silk unlocking new clothing outfits or Flag decorations for a camp would be interesting. tehm 3:22, 26 March, 2014 (EST)

Cobra venom, crushed eggshells, and some kind of mushroom can be combined into an alchemical tincture. The tincture allows higher level chemical extracts to be diluted into lower level ones. Two Ra's extract, and 100 tincture could be used to manufacture three Thoth's extract. Something like that. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Sawdust: maybe use it as bedding in animal pens, for some benefit, like they reproduce faster. Avanya

Sawdust is an excellent insulator. Create a Beer Cellar which requires a ton of sawdust and keeps beer fresh (pauses beer timer). You have to feed it sawdust constantly in order to keep the beer from spoiling. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Require sawdust as flooring for many large structures like houses. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Provide a way to turn sawdust into coal at some proper ratio (100 sawdust -> 1 coal?). Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Sawdust might be used as fuel. Make high-level kilns require sawdust (a high level wood byproduct) instead of wood. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Flint: Useful in the early game but disappears completely from the end game. Add it as an additional requirement for making concrete. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Thorns: Another early game item. Allow it to be crushed into compost (100 thorns -> 1 compost? 1k thorns?). Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Compost: Allow it to be added to a greenhouse as a kind of fuel to make grass grow faster Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Leather: In the late game, add a lot more requirements for leather gaskets to automation machines. 100 leather to make a steam engine, etc. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST) Oil/Leather: Require linearly increasing oil/leather repair costs for a deep well. Max it out as 500/500 or somesuch. Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

Medium Stones: Allow them to be shaped into stone blocks. Require stone blocks in all late game structures (where just cut stone/concrete is needed now). Tallow 10:50, 18 April 2014 (EST)

The Benefits of Discipline

Passing body tests increases your stats, passing worship tests increases your Barley growth, passing leadership tests increases the number of petitions you can carry, passing architecture tests let's you build larger compounds, passing art tests makes you a better blacksmith, but harmony and thought are its own reward?

Two issues here. Since we will have more than seven tests available, will it be necessary to rethink the scaling of the other disciplines, or are those just based on your rank (you can't go above Oracle even if you've passed seven).

Second, a little boost to Harmony and Thought? Perhaps those who have passed harmony tests can use the Mechanic skill more frequently than every 20 minutes (being in tune with Egypt helps you to tune machines) and ranks in thought let you repair more frequently? Perhaps other things on a fixed timer which are not affected by stats could get a small bonus from passing tests in these disciplines.

--GHawkins 17:43, 26 March, 2014 (PST) +1 Porthos

Clothing

Would love to see players be able to make clothing, hats, sandels that would show up on the player avatar. This would require alot of artist work and not sure how much strain the engine can take in large gatherings, but being able to customize your look is a big draw!--Porthos 05:33, 27 March 2014 (EST)

Things that should be noted. Avatar creation is THE most expensive piece of artwork in the game (In regards to artist time) The enhancements that you are asking for for require wholesale replacement of the existing avatars, (Existing clothing would have to be removed, the models re-rigged and new clothing created) The engine would need to be modified to add a cloth system to permit the clothing to work right and not cross into the body.... Yes, I realize that some of the models are sub-par already in that aspect, but more pluggable clothing makes the issue worse. (IE - No way to get this done in time for T7.) --Pluribus 11:35, 27 March 2014 (EST)

Thank you, I appreciate that it is a huge request to make, and even more so now as you said that all the avatars have to be retooled for it to be implemented. Hopefully, beyond T7 then --Porthos 05:41, 28 March 2014 (EST)

Clothing has been requested for some time. If this wasn't available until month 3, people would still be excited about it. This doesn't need to be done by tale start. tehm-- March 28, '14

Feature Requests

Mod Tools

L2PBS, Baazar, etc have literally the worst modding system known to man. Boards can only be modded by one person at a time, and each mod has to go to RP every time to pick up the boards. Mods are unpaid, uncompensated community volunteers, and requiring a commute -- in some cases, a very long commute -- is punitive. Fixing how costly it is to volunteer as a mod would undoubtedly go a long way to increasing mod retention. --Eimear

The mic has to be clicked on to 'grab the boards', can it be added to a player menu option to grab the boards, any mics owned by guilds you are in would show up.--Porthos 04:12, 6 April 2014 (EST)

• This times a billion, ATITD is a communal game. The reason for the change was to foster dissent between regions, but honestly if there's no place for people to argue with each other, you won't get any more dissent. This experiment has simply lead to a breakdown in communication between people and made it really hard to get a main board up. Time to send this change the way of the shard methinks! - Orrin

• Moderated boards should have a visual indication if there is someone manning the callboard. Doesn't need to be complex, if one or more persons have the callboard open, then a green light displays in the chat tab. If nobody has a callboard open, then a red light displays on the chat tab, or a warning triangle which displays "Callboard not manned" when you hover over the icon. Silden 16:11, 14 April 2014 (EST)

/Roll Number Generator

I propose to add function that will return random generated number from 1 to 100. Typing /roll in any chat would return "<Player Name> rolls <number from 1-100>" which would be visible to all members of that chat. To distinguish it from main chat informations and /me command, I propose that text of that function would appear in purple. (Petition by Tyreus, added by Cegaiel) - Would like to see this as a feature; there are times where this feature can really come in handy. +2 Porthos Silden

Storyline Suggestions

Bring Back the Story!

My favorite time in game has been when there's a story that offers am opportunity to do more than play in sandbox mode. Sami and his brother trying to sway Egyptians to their cause was interesting! And they impacted the game dynamically (I fondly remember nuking a region to get better Furnaces). I'd like to see a commitment to a story unfolding and evolving over the months of play. Seriously, a commitment. Like the 1st Day of every Egyptian month Story progresses... tehm 3:38, 26 March, 2014 (EST)

• The University of Progress would be fun to see again. -Bri

Monuments

Monuments don't become significant in the game until the very late stages, after all 7 tests are released and most of the game population has drifted away. I propose we change that system and incorporate the building of the monuments into the storyline from the first test release. It would give people a visible goal to work together towards for the entire telling. Each monument would have a predetermined location at the start of the tale (or from the release of the first test in that discipline) possibly at a site like Memphis where players can't build near them. It has an initial build cost for its construction site and 7 stages of development. There is a small cost associated with contributing to each stage of the monument.

To advance the monument to the next stage of development x number of people need to contribute at each level dependant on the number of tests they have passed. You can have unlimited number of people contribute once per stage per title (so everyone can get their named listed and immortalized). Contributions must be made in order and a person is listed at the highest level they contributed at. (Oracles would have to contribute 7 times, once per stage and would be listed once under oracles.) IE it takes 228 Students to open the 2nd stage. 112 Prentices to open the 3rd stage. 56 Journeyman to open 4th. 28 Scribes to open 5th. 14 Masters to open 6th. 7 Sages to open 7th. and 1 Oracle to finish the monument. (In theory it would only take 228 people to build a monument, however thousands may contribute to it, and be listed on it). After the monument is finished there is a period of time that people can continue to contribute to the monument (minimum 60 days). Possibly contributing to a monument (after the initial site is built) gives a stat buff (similar to eating at a banquet?). When each stage is completed an Egypt wide message goes out and Egypt wide stat buff is given.

30 days after all the monuments are built (each has at least 1 oracle), the first 7 oracles in each discipline that contribute (at oracle level) to the monument have the option to make a Test/Tech suggestion. (They can choose to pass on making a suggestion and the next oracle gets a chance.) Those suggestions are voted on by everyone that has contributed to the monument. There is 30 days to vote. Votes are weighted by the level which you have contributed to the monument (ie student gets a weight of 1, oracles 7). Kyline