T7 Improvement Ideas

If you missed the chat, you can read it here.

Please feel free to add your ideas of changes and things you would like to be implemented in T7.
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Tests

Test of Mentorship

Suggest to Scrap the Mentor Shrine, and change to a point based system where the mentee can award points based on a fixed schedule to player(s) that have been helpful to them. May tie it to levels/test advancement of the mentee. Changes the focus to not just be about mentoring a player up to citizenship. The number of points to pass will be adjusted accordingly, for example it could be 21 points from 7 different mentees. --Porthos 20:15, 22 March 2014 (EST)

Could keep the Mentor Shrine, but have the mentor build it, not the mentee. Once the test is opened, give each player one token on each level-up which they can then deposit in a mentor shrine of someone they feel have mentored them well. This will act as a cue to players not familiar with the test since they will have a token in their inventory, and allow multiple mentors to benefit from the assistance they provide. I also find that a mentor shrine built today doesn't take into account the mentoring I may get from other people at a later date. Silden 16:58, 23 March 2014 (EST) +1 (Eimear)

(Moved up from below) I definitely want to increase the amount of interaction between mentor and mentee. However, I don't want to just tie to tests/achievements, etc.. It would feel like Prophet/Promotion/Marriage etc... What about keeping the Shrine, tying it to player retention and requiring both the mentor and mentee to meditate together on it once a week to show that the two actually got together at least the once to accumulate the points. Maybe points based on time logged in at the same time (Bonuses for tests and achievements, but I don't want the majority of points to come from that) (IE - You cant mentor effectively if your not on at the same time) I hesitate to do within proximity of each other with the wide use of chat channels for mentoring it would make mentoring harder which isn't what I want. I am thinking a having test passing be based a threshold, with added bonuses for scores beyond the passing level. (level of effort: 4 hours) --Pluribus 20:27, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Test of Marriage

When was this test modified ? T4 maybe ?

• I liked it much more in T3, i.e. when *both* spouses would win the test on a given week and the points were Nb. of tests passed as spouses (by *either* spouse) x number of weeks since married.

I think that it was way more of a collaboration between the spouses to win together the test of marriage than what is happening now since the test was modified. (Basically now only one of the spouse wins the test, if the other spouse has worked like a slave to pass as many tests as possible)

So...can we have the initial Test of Marriage back ? --Nissim

• FYI : The initial marriage test was in worship (didn't even need to pass worship init)and you could pass it just after you got married. So, yea, i'd guess the t3 version is what would be the preference, since it also includes casanova passes (Which even if we do have them in t6, are a rarity) http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale3/Tests/Test_Of_Marriage --blondie

• I find that some of the perks for marriage provide too much help for other areas of the game. For example, spouse porting gives an unfair advantage in events that prohibit navigation/expedition/paid chariot travel. It also allows the progress in tests that are designed to make you get out there, and do so with next to no cost. Examples include porting to your spouse who has stumbled along an Ibis, then porting back home when your spouse has finished their travels or porting to a cicada and double hitting it. May I suggest that we change free spouse porting to an extra waypoint instead, where porting to your spouse will cost you navigation time. Silden 17:01, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• Please, please, please, don't mess with spousal warps. I can understand not having it on some events. We've been penalized already on phoenix runs, I think that's punishment enough. There will be plenty of Ibis that people will all get them at one point, same thing with cicadas. There are times when people don't EVEN run to reported sightings or have too many cicadas. I don't think spousal warp should be blamed on losing out on tests. (--blondie, march 22, 2014)

I haven't followed the changes in marriage. My understanding is that the complaint is that both players don't advance at the same rate. (IE - one player works his butt off to advance tests and only the partner is rewarded) So, you want me to solve the dead-beat spouse issue... Or is this just a marriage between a main and a mule? (In which case, I dont see a problem) Isn't picking a spouse who wont leave you high and dry part of the test? I am just trying to better understand what the problem is. --Pluribus

I think marriage passes could be an issue both if you have a mule or if you have a real player as your spouse. If you look at it the way marriage is now, you basically need your spouse to pass tests if you want to pass marriage. That would encourage you to have a mule that passes tests so you can pass marriage. So, if we had marriage go back to t3 ways, both spouses would get credit every time either passes a test. This seems more like the spouses working together for a common goal. Also, the spouse passing tests/active is getting credit for the work they are doing. The t3 way: spouse A passes 2 tests, Spouse B passes 3 tests; they both get 5 points, that gets multiplied by the weeks they've been married. Hopefully that makes more sense in terms of what we are looking for in the test --Eimear (blondie +1)

Test of Seven Phoenix

Should be able to build a monumental Phoenix (in the same way we have with Monumental Towers) Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Test of the Covered Cartouche

• Buildings built in the building rounds should disappear once the round is over. Otherwise high level players just salvage everything at the end, and not feel the pain that lower level players with poorer salvage skills can manage. Should be able to build monumental buildings (in the same way we have with Monumental Towers) instead. Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• I think it's mean to have buildings built during building rounds disappear. Some people don't get very far into cartouche rounds and only get a handful (if lucky) of cartouche buildings. You would be, in fact, penalizing people who don't reach high levels of cartouche. Isn't cartouche mean enough? You also can't salvage cartouche buildings. I can't remember for sure if the owner can but i believe they are not dpa-able, at least. Note: cartouche is not an arch test and having the buildings stay after you build is part of the reward of doing cartouche. (blondie-- march 24, 2014)

• Build cartouches from previous tellings, like all-star cartouche rounds. Also, having more events/contests where everyone can build cartouche buildings. I think that's worked out very nicely when it's been done. If it were done more often more people would have decorations they could add to their homes. (blondie-- march 24, 2014)

Test of the Oyster Catcher

Swimming shouldn't be given when you take the test, instead Swimming should be a skill you learn at school, and be a requirement to take this test. Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Thought Tests

Can we remove the heavy reliance of so many cuttable gems from a lot of these buildings? Particularly from the principles, but from the actual building construction too... Silden 17:08, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Sound Based Tests

I understand Safari and Cicadas are beloved tests and I don't want to suggest changes that will take away from those tests for the majority of players, but I would like to explore if there is a way to make them accessible to players with hearing loss. This was less of a problem in T3 (see the Test of Marriage issue, above), but this Tale my spouse is playing as me to drag me through Marriage so we're not penalised for the fact that anything with directional sound is not going to happen for me. Suggestion: maybe a visual HUD people could load if they wanted it? I realise that would make the tests easier, but it would also make them accessible to more people. (Eimear)

• I wanted to add about safari. Frogs used to have shadows in the past. Is it possible to add shadows back? That may help those who have issues with sound (blondie, march 23rd, 2014)

Add me to the issue with Sound Based Tests. I'm registered Hearing Impaired, and I have a problem with Cicadas and Bullfrogs too. If nothing else, for Cicadas have a Main Chat entry when the system first starts to play the cicada chirping saying "You hear the faint noise of a Cicada nearby", and for bullfrogs, as Blondie says above, bring back the shadow, that helps. Alternatively, a range of messages based upon the strength and direction such as "You hear a faint sound of a Bullfrog", "A chirp of a bullfrog can be heard in the distance", "You hear a strong sound of a Bullfrog to your left", "You hear a strong sound of a Bullfrog"... Silden 17:14, 23 March 2014 (EST) +1 (Eimear)

Improvement Ideas, Suggestions, and Requested Changes

Fishing Improvements

Reduce the cost to improve fly fishing skill by about 2/3, so instead of 1200 fishing points to go from fly fishing 1 to fly fishing 2, it would be 400 fishing points. Add in new varities of fish, increasing the total types of fish throughout Egypt to 243. Maybe add achievement for catching a # of different varities. Change how the game places fish, instead of by grid location, make certain fish only capturable in a region. Also tie certain fish to be near terrain features like shallow water, deep water, clay or papyrus or large stone etc, similiar to tattoo. Allow the higher quality fishing rods to be craftable by players. Maybe tie it to fly fishing level and carving level. Add in a rare random event (graphical or text message) that an epicly large fish of the appropriate species (for the location, time and month) is spotted near by. To catch the player plays a mini-game using sliders on line tension (line play), and reeling in, the larger the fish the harder to catch. These fish can be mounted (maybe add an achievement) --Porthos 20:15, 22 March 2014 (EST)

Click, wait 15 seconds... click, wait 15 seconds... click, wait 15 seconds... Not very stimulating. I'd much rather have a click, and have the bobble land in a random place, then bob when there's a fish. On clicking the bobble, a powerbar appears with green in a random part, red on either side, and a black bar that randomly moves left and right. Your job, get it to the green area within a couple seconds, and keep it there. Once the allotted time has passed, you catch the fish. The bar on the powerbar moves faster the lower your strength (hence harder to keep in the green area), and the duration of this power bar assigned to Endurance. I would find that much more stimulating. Silden 17:18, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Raeli Ovens

• The ownership feature of Raeli Ovens appears to have introduced a miracle of physics - the instant porting of lots of tiles. A player can have thousands of tiles delivered straight to their temple or warehouse if they start the oven, head to their temple/warehouse, and have a second person stop the oven at the desired time. The oven will then port the tiles straight to the player standing next to their temple/warehouse. Let's have these tiles stay in the machine, with the Take menu displaying Owners tiles and Last Baked tiles. The Owners tiles are only accessible by owners of the oven, and the Last Baked Tiles would hold the bakers tiles (either accessible to all, or have the bakers tiles become the owners tiles if the oven is baked by a new player) Silden 17:32, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• i don't understand what you are saying betweeen "the ownership feature..tiles straight to the player standing ..." this is something you want to happen? Tiles already stay in raeli oven, we see who last used the oven, who can take tiles depends on settings of permission. (blondie-- march 24, 2014)

Keyboard Shortcuts

Can we stop the spam of some keyboard shortcuts. The main culprit is the Greenhouses, you press H to harvest a few greenhouses, but get a main chat full of You harvest 100 gress. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. You harvest 100 gress. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest. No grass to harvest.... you get the idea. Silden 17:32, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Trading Posts

Let's change the trading post to allow someone to take what they have to sell, and then indicate what they are willing to take for it. Then, if someone matches what has been asked for, then the item for sale will unlock. The interface should have two boxes, one for quantity, one for resource. I take my 9k hatchet to the trading post, it then brings up a window asking me what I want for it, I put in 100 into the quantity, I type in Steel into the second box, then if someone brings a resource matching exactly that string, and the exact quantity, then it will take the 100 steel, put it into the trading post, and release the 9k hatchet. The seller then just pops along to the trading post, and take out their steel. Whilst some people want the interaction (and the acro, signatures etc), some don't. Not everyone plays at the same time, 8pm in Europe could be 2pm in the US and 8am in Australia. Not everyone is going to be around at the same time to effect the trade, and The Goods don't sell everything (particularly cut gems) Silden 17:32, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Long Range Ferry

• Once constructed, a Long Range Ferry shouldn't de-construct to it's basic components. It should remain as a Long Range Ferry (with an appropriate Weight/Bulk), in the same way an Airship does. Also, it shouldn't cost you a construction site each time you want to place it somewhere. Once constructed, there should be no further construction site costs. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

• Controlling the way the ferry is placed so you can ride it through bodies of water should be set up better. Sometimes it takes ages to be able to place a ferry and you constantly get a message that you can't go anywhere (blondie, march 24, 2014)

This object is too far away

If it's possible, then please can we reduce the number of "This object is too far away" in respects to situations where it is not appropriate. For example, when you are mining, you should be able to reach all ores, not just some of them. Nothing worse than standing at ore 1, and not being able to select ore 10. Same with trees, there are some occasions when you are the high of your avatar away from a tree, and have that message, then find you can click on a different tree that is 5 times the height of your avatar with no problems. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Overlapping Fauna

Can we do away with overlapping fauna and trees? So irritating when you have to be pixel perfect to reach that thorn bush that is inside the hawthorn tree, or two trees that are on the exact same spot, and differ only by the direction of the bark. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

This would require building a true collision system into the engine. It is unlikely time for T7... Granted it would prevent ANY building from overlappying, (Like greenhouses, flax beds, vineyards, etc... Also unknown what the added collision detection calculations would do to the engine speed. I will add it to the "play with" list though --Pluribus 20:15, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Peaky hills - Terrain too steep

Some places have peaky hills that generate a terrain too steep message which can be ultra annoying when you think "it's a puddle, why are you saying I can't walk through a lake?". Is it possible to have these hills traversable with care. By this, I mean have it cost a bit in endurance/strength, so that after a footstep or more, you get the message that it was "too much for you, rest a bit", and leave the terrain too steep messages for the terrain that really is a mountain rather than a molehill. Silden 17:42, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Last Jug

Please can we get rid of the "You can't use your last Jug". I know it's a catch-22 (Can't get clay without a jug, can't get a jug without a clay), but those messages when building is far more likely than someone using their last Jug (let them trade for one if they do get into that situation, or give us a Pottery Refresher Course for a cost like 500 wood, where another jug is provided to them) Silden 17:52, 23 March 2014 (EST)

This one has to stay on by default. The GMs had to reimburse MANY a newbie because they donated their last jug to the university and complained bitterly. I would consider a popup warning the first time warning you that NO reimbursements of any kind will be given... (and make you type "NO TRAINING WHEELS" to acknowledge it...) then FLAG the account so the GMs wont help you... --Pluribus 20:10, 23 March 2014 (EST)

A possible to solution to this would be to change the free jug to another type of water storage. Some form of water-skin perhaps? It could also a crafting assignment given to the new player, which they would then be able to carry on with them without the fear of accidentally donating it or otherwise unintentionally destroying it. Likewise as a crafted item it could also have a potential to wear out and become useless, or depending on the type of material leak, or have some sort of other downside that would limit its overall usefulness, but still allow a water source solution. --Kartal 20:10, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Guild Storage

Some guilds need lots of storage, and end up with massive amounts of storage buildings to accommodate it. To reduce the clutter on the highway, can the guild-houses be "upgradable" to allow storage of anything. So for every 100 Boards, 1000 Bricks and 10 Cut Stone, the building can hold another 25,000 deben.

There are already several different storage buildings. Using the guildhall for extremely cheap storage rather than those makes no sense. --Pluribus 20:12, 23 March 2014 (EST)

TAKE MY MONEY!

Nobody wants ATITD to become Pay to Win with sold resources etc but the ability to go to a webstore and buy a) cornerstones and b) a KITTY would be awesome. Also, I am pleased the subscription may be dropping to $12 per month; if you offered 12 months for $100, I'd be inclined to buy that if I got something. I don't want something that's a pain in my rear ("Now you can paint your compound! You just need to accumulate 3,000 annoying resources and lean to mix paint!") but something like... a pair of statues, or clothing options, or a frog that hops around your CP or... umm I don't know actually but I am sure people will have suggestions. (Eimear)

Longer term subscriptions are offered during the pre-order time generally... (I dont think that a telling has ever NOT had them once avaialable.) They usually do come with some perks, (I need to see what has already been offered, that makes the decision easier for me :-) ) As for a store for the added things, it is very likely that I will do something like that, I just dont know how fleshed out that I can have it prior to the start of T7... --Pluribus 20:20, 23 March 2014 (EST)

Here is the info on 12 Month Prepay. Camp decoration is... meh, and has to be super cost-inefficient. I'd rather get a pack of decorations I could place and move myself, like I dunno... two lion statues and a six pack of un-breedable, unique flowers. And a camp frog! Or a wandering sheep! Or a staked camel for the lawn! (I really want a pet, can you tell?) (Eimear)

Newbie Retention

Instructional Help

I have to tell you that as a returning player, the lack of instructions is really, really striking. For the love of Pete, please put in a (?) help button on the upper right of the UI that open a search box that at the very least, searches the wiki. The wiki also needs to cover fundamentals better because, for example, I am doing Test of Reason now and:

• There are no illustrations for Empty Hand, Pathmaker, Gem Cutting Tables, or Venery. I still have no idea what a Venery is.
• The instructions for each are on how to build one, not how to play them. I only know what the heck I am supposed to do with a Pathmaker because Silden provided an illustration for hers.

These issues have to be even more profound roadblocks for genuinely new players. (Eimear)

• Eimear? you do know that the information on the wiki is made possible by players? There are many people who edit wiki out of the goodness of their heart? Anyone can use it, anyone can update it or add notations, guides, to it. There can always be improvements made but there's a lot of hours put into what is already in the wiki. (blondie-- march 24, 2014)

• The point is that the game should not have instructions entirely dependent on the goodness of players' hearts. That's insanity. This suggestion is in the Player Retention section, and I am saying, first, that not having a help system in-game is really bad for player retention. Second, and less importantly, I think it's weird there is NO dev-provided documentation. (Eimear)

Responses from Pluribus

are some of these improvements possible? are some very difficult to code? can some of these be rethought and improved (just to give examples--blondie)

Marriage - I haven't followed the changes in marriage. My understanding is that the complaint is that both players don't advance at the same rate. (IE - one player works his butt off to advance tests and only the partner is rewarded) So, you want me to solve the dead-beat spouse issue... Or is this just a marriage between a main and a mule? (In which case, I dont see a problem) Isn't picking a spouse who wont leave you high and dry part of the test? I am just trying to better understand what the problem is.

• I think marriage passes could be an issue both if you have a mule or if you have a real player as your spouse. If you look at it the way marriage is now, you basically need your spouse to pass tests if you want to pass marriage. That would encourage you to have a mule that passes tests so you can pass marriage. So, if we had marriage go back to t3 ways, both spouses would get credit every time either passes a test. This seems more like the spouses working together for a common goal. Also, the spouse passing tests/active is getting credit for the work they are doing. The t3 way: spouse A passes 2 tests, Spouse B passes 3 tests; they both get 5 points, that gets multiplied by the weeks they've been married. Hopefully that makes more sense in terms of what we are looking for in the test (blondie) +1 (Eimear)

Fishing - Fishing needs to be examined in the context of Isis' bounty as I have explicitly been requested to permit fishing from boats. (Not sure the animation system will allow the blending of the boat animations (the boat) with the fishing animations properly while keeping the two together) If doable, then fishing areas will greatly expand. As for the rest of the things, Flyfishing is new tech to me, Let me look at that code a bit and see how easy it will be. (Likely significant time to code)