Guilds/zFree/Zfree Tale 8 Planning

Location

Now we know that T8 will be a rerun of T7, it is worth considering whether a significant change in location might keep things interesting and change some of the ways in which we see ourselves and our contribution.

For example, we could consider setting up more remotely, like Sinai or CoTs. On one hand we would likely not get as many applicants early on, but those we do would be those who know us and seek us out. We wouldn't have as much of an issue with lag. It might also mean that as a guild we might be initially more focused on research and opening techs in our new region.

Or, we could stay relatively centrally located in RP, but further out.

Interested in your thoughts...<cate 10Jan18>

• Amy: [01d07h30m] I heard zfree is working on arch and worship monuments so went to the wiki page to see if there was info on how to help. There, I saw zfree is thinking about T8 and asking for suggestions. Never thought about it before then, but my immediate thought was - how about a zfree RP AND a zfree 7L? Here are my thoughts - and others like Chart & Marlie are thinking the same thing... We love 7L and loved having our own camps, yet living near Amigos, a great public guild at the beginning of the telling, but really fizzled out when Shayra and Augir left. I'm NOT a leader! So I can't start anything up in 7L for T8, and I don't know of anyone else who's planning to. if zfree has TWO people who might be willing to take the reins, that could work. Details totally up to the rein holders :) I can't live in RP, as my computer is slow and I "hop" not run whenever I'm there. I'd love to live near a great public guild, helping out whenever possible, like we did with Amigos. Just an idea to consider. Thanks :)
• Eugenius: I was informed the Point is moving to 7 Lakes. I think we should consider moving to the Points location.

Possible options

What are we looking for?

• Flat land with convenient access to basic resources - water, clay, sand, grass, wood, etc
• Convenient access to schools and Universities, as we may want to focus more on research next tale
• Convenient access to Chariot, Expedition Point, Voting Booths and Altars, although these last two features can be requested as camp deco
• room to expand, and room for member camps in the vicinity

Best options so far:

• RP, South-West near UHarmony - see Area 1
• RP, south of acro field along the chain of ponds, around 1766, 2490 and extending to the east too - see Area 2
• OE, east of SThought, on the Red Sea coast near Telanoc island - around 1190, 6450

Other places of potential interest (but not as good as the above!)

• OE, west side of Nile beneath the Takeshot field - around 850, 6370
• RP, north Nile coast
• RP, 1330, 3780ish, both sides of the road
• MV, near the CS, south of UHarm and ULead
• DoS, nile north of the big bend,
• Dos, big bend, around -418, 2700, Expedition Point is really close!
• CCR between UWorship and SWorship
• CCR, green area SE of CS, around -221, 6662
• VoK, being adventurous! -1160, 7144. Has everything, but is a LONG way away)

• please suggest other areas for us to look at...

Just for discussion, how about where we are right now?

Comments on locations: Distance from cs was in my opinion a tiny bit too close this tale. I'd say anywhere between a 1-1.5 minute run is fine. 
I do not think the either area 1 and 2 are good options. 1 because it is too far from cs, 2 because there is no where near enough grass for 
massive flax production. I like the idea of being in one of the not center places, but I do not think our members would like it. Being in two 
places; I do not think this is a valid Idea, our guild would end up being +400 members instead of +250 members. And we would not be able to 
maintain both places properly, if someone wanted to move and build another place, I have no problem with that.

Feedback

In Tale 7 the zfree elders worked hard early on to set up zfree. We expanded quickly and became a large guild of over 150 members! The collaborative way that guild members work together is amazing, and has helped us be pretty successful. Our guild has most importantly become a social hub for members to share being part of this unique community.

As we get close to the end of this tale we need to think about getting going again for Tale 8. Your thoughts about what worked, and could be done better would be very welcome!

There are some starter questions below, to get things going, based around some key topics. Feel free to add whatever else you think is needed.

If you are not confident updating the wiki, please personal chat me <cate> or any of the zfree elders in game and we can post your comments for you.

In the beginning

1. In the beginning: the small group of founder elders used the initial 24 hours to scout for a location and set about establishing the guild headquarters and initial compounds.

• Any thoughts about location next tale? Should we aim for somewhere closer or further out from the centre?

Any closer, and you may have problems with the size the guild buildings get. 
Any further away, and it starts to get troublesome to get between guild and the centre. 
I think the guild location was just right in tale 7. Silden 07:53, 24 July 2017 (EST)

I think we need to be very near a CS or expedition site. We are likely to want to travel to other regions for research or digs or ...  especially in the early game -- Yendor

• Camp layout - How can we better manage pollution and lag?

Camel Pens and Greenhouses - need to leave a bigger space, as we ran out and had to rebuild in tale 7. 
Of note, we need to remember to keep space for drying straw, as that was an after-thought this tale. 

We need more space between the polluting buildings (sawmills and brick machines) and the tree grove. I think this was caused by not thinking of saw mill pollution when we built the carpentry compound. --Yendor

Brick production, need to have it closer to mud and sand, 
and further away from the trees in case  pollution mechanism in tale 8 is similar to tale 7. 

Glass production, need to be closer to sand (we had to get camp decoration to put some in during tale 7). 

Space out the chemistry, rock, and cafe compounds a little more, as when small warehouses went up, 
it started to get cramped very quickly. 

Chemistry and Forges building needs to be bigger next time, as it ended up feeling claustrophobic in 
the chemistry building, and the same-model Student and Master buildings being next to each other 
caused confusion and costly mistakes.

Kitchens, tale 7 had two groups (MPs and everything else), tale 8 I suggest three groups 
(one for sink/dex/end, one for other dishes, one for MPs)

When placing 'ponds', need to weigh up the benefits of having more watermines with the negative that 
they impede getting between buildings easily.
 Actually the watermines was placed long after the ponds went up. The ponds was not intended for more watermines. /McArine

Need to 'reserve' space near the flax houses to allow flax growing.

Space out the warehouses rather than having them all stacked next to each other 
as it gets harder to quickly know exactly which warehouse you need.  

Location of doors on compounds needs to be better considered, as we had problems this tale 
with doors preventing proper expansion of buildings. Silden 07:53, 24 July 2017 (EST)

Flax Compound, the gins need to be next to the Steam Distaff (which then need to be next to Automatic Loom as they are now).
One full Steam Distaff can feed five Automatic Looms, so number of Looms need to be 5 (or 10)
Maybe a second compound for the automated flax, by the time these are released Cornerstones are aplenty. Silden 00:58, 3 September 2017 (EST)

Bees might need a more coherent structure, some are very closely packed, others are not in a coherent pattern from one to 
the other causing some to be missed by some collectors. Silden 00:58, 3 September 2017 (EST)

Glass works needs to further away from main camp, as lag can affect the Glory Hole. cate 08:33, 25 July 2017 (AEST)
Not built on a hillside that prevents expansion, some people like lots of gloryholes
More space between Papyrus Tanks, and room to expand the numbers Silden 00:58, 3 September 2017 (EST)
As a ballpark, 40 Soda, 30 Normal and 20 Jewel with space in-between - yes, some of us can run 46 benches at the same time, 
but different glass takes a lot of effort. If I could make all the same glass at the same time, I'd be a happy bunny :) Silden 03:45, 26 September 2017 (EST)

Suggestion to have "Outpost" buildings for Gypsum and Bauxite ktchens. Also once useful / 
good fishing spots have been found potential build there with watermine like in MV Peter 16:33, 17 September 2017 (GMT)

Use of fences to outline areas for gravel manufacturing? citrus trees, area for sculptures, extra drop items etc Peter 16:33, 17 September 2017 (GMT)

• Do we grow slowly by invitation, or quickly and ask member to help provide the resources to make that possible?

Asking members to help has the effect of both helping the guild grow quickly
and help players feel like they are a big part of the guild Silden 07:53, 24 July 2017 (EST)

It is my opinion that the guild grow quickly but in a two tiered system. 200 brick and 200 boards to expand the guild hall and
a yet to be determined amount to expand the compounds.  Eugenius

I favor expanding the guild quickly. We shouldn't have to tell good players "sorry, we're full" -- Yendor

• How should we manage the membership and access equitably?

Monthly reviews of membership and promotion based on contribution and willingness to help out where needed. 
I'd prefer a two level access system initially - Initiate: General Access and Patriarch: Reserved for Projects, 
or something like that. Continue the Post Office system for those living in/ around camp to store more personal things.   
cate 08:33, 25 July 2017 (AEST)

I am with cate on a two tiered system and promotion. Eugenius

• We are anticipating there will be lots of lovely players wanting to join us again next tale.

How big should we aim to be?

How do we go about getting stuff together fast enough to meet expectations?

Do we have a 'joining contribution' again to cover guild expansion costs?

Having people contribute boards and bricks helps in the early part of the game
When full, keep one space free so that applications can continue to be taken
Keep applications open, players should not see a "Closed" sign.  Silden 07:53, 24 July 2017 (EST)

It makes sense to increase guild size in blocks, as the cost is greater if done in smaller increments. I suggest 
we look at the build costs at 30, 50, 80, 100, 120 and make a decision on what would be most efficient use of resources.
cate 09:15, 25 July 2017 (AEST) 

Do we establish teams to focus in on the key priorities like animals, flax, bricks, metals?

From personal experience, in the past I wanted to help, but I couldn't just say "Yes,
I'll help do X building" because it would involve something I'm no good at (for example, 
a building that needs a cut gem). As a result, I didn't get involved with it at all. 
I had to wait until someone discussed making something I was good at, and I thought
"I can chip in there", and break the ice, help make some of the component parts, and find
that I'm now well and truly involved. I'm sure I'm not alone feeling like that! 

Someone might not mind making end products like nails and bars, but don't like 
getting ores or not be able to make charcoal. Another player may love the challenge of 
getting ore or found how to make lots of charcoal quickly and easily, but hate turning it 
into metals. So to say "you're on the animals team, start building the farm" may not
necessarily be the best answer. Silden 07:53, 24 July 2017 (EST)

Research was shambolic at the beginning, with the RP Research guild kicking out players
and was led by people not around the whole tale, whereas zFree helped out both in-region
and other region research, maybe we need a zFree Research guild which only looks at 
research, primarily in the region we settle in, and also to help other regions 
as required? Silden 09:54, 29 August 2017 (EST)

Agree with Silden on the Research angle and would be willing to spearhead this.  I adore research. Sedjet 20:03, 4 Sept 2017 (CST)

Maybe this is just my playstyle but I think burnout is likely to be much worse if someone feels obligated to pick/dry grass day in and day out. I think a rotating cadre of volunteers will be more burnout friendly than having someone do the same thing over and over again. A research subguild would work well, but would it coordinate with non-zFree members in the region? --Yendor

• Did the guild purpose and guidelines affect your attitude towards being in the guild?

• How about the guild wiki? Was it useful?

May need to be a little more organised, be more willing to put details on sub-pages
instead of trying to cram it all into the main page.   Silden 07:53, 24 July 2017 (EST)
  (Agreed -- Yendor)

Sub-Guilds:  I believe that the use of zTest guilds was very helpful for organizing group tests.  
The interest in certain tests has changed over the tale, as the more short-term group tests are 
completed by interested players.  Perhaps having more generically-named sub-guilds would be useful.  
Once a player finds the correct GH, the actual guild name isn't very relevant, and the guild tab can 
be changed to reflect the test that a group is working on.  Instead of having zPilgrim being re-purposed 
for zMummies, the name could start out as zTestOne, or something similar.

I like the idea of having subguilds named after the tests. For example, zWorship could organize pilgrimate groups and leavened bread and mummies instead of having a bunch of guilds with very similar members which are mostly idle --Yendor

• What should the role of the zfree elders be next tale?

Camp Layout

For Flax, the ideal number is 15 Flax Gins (fully upgraded this is 18,000 flax at a time), feeding 4 Steam Distaffs, which feeds 20 Automatic Looms. We had 10/5/5 in Tale 7, which left some machines waiting around for work.

Mid-Tale

In zfree this tale we started setting up specialist guilds to help coordinate the effort around specific tasks and tests, like 'zemples', zThrone, zBread, for example. We made decisions on projects to contribute towards releasing technologies for all Egyptians, like the Pyramids, and installing new and improved machines around camp for zfree members.

• How can we better involve guild members in the decisions about guild projects and enhancements?

• What keeps you logging in when the mid-tale doldrums start?

• Player-managed events can help motivate people stay tuned in, but need coordination.

Which player events would you like to see more of?

Would you like to see zfree take more of a proactive role in organizing player-managed events for Egypt?

• Mid tale is a good time to learn new skills. Tutorials in what topics would be of interest to you?

Gemcutting, please. I have been playing since T2 and still not figured it out. Sedjet 2016, 4 Sept 2017 (CST)

....

End-Tale

We are anticipating playing a part in getting together materials for the monuments, as soon as they are released, and working collaboratively to undertake the work. Getting the monuments together and supporting the leaders to finalise them before tale end is pretty rewarding, particularly if we get involved in drafting and reviewing ideas for new tests for next Tale. This Tale has been unique because we have had a chance to review just about every test there has been. It is time to start thinking about the ones you like, and the sort of things you would like to be involved in next tale - even propose ideas for new tests.

• Monuments are fun! Which monuments should we support as a priority?

Architecture, Thought, Leadership and Art!! cate 09:17, 25 July 2017 (AEST)

Body, Harmony, Worship!! Silden 04:36, 10 August 2017 (EST)

• Developing ideas for new tests to add to the monuments is challenging, but also rewarding. Do you have any ideas for new tests in any of the seven disciplines? Post links to user pages, for the detail!

I am working on an idea for an Arch test, but no details are posted as yet.  I will link when I have that info congealed. Sedjet 20:11, 4 Sept 2017 (CST)

• End of tale party - ideas, please!

tbc