Illusid/Delegate

Purpose and Theory

The delegate concept is quite simple really. I represent the people who have voted for me. The purpose is two-fold. The idea allows people who do not want become DP still have a voice in who shows up on the popular ballot. I feel that many people do care who becomes DP, however the ballot is decided by those who have done nothing other than convince citizens that they were the best candidate. If they truly believe that they are the best candidate then how can they vote for someone else in these group stages? Maybe they are being "reasonable" and breaking a deadlock tie that would benefit no one (except the candidates in other groups). Somehow through a discussion in the final rounds candidates are convinced that someone else is a better candidate? I think it's more likely the more passive, peaceful, cooperative, reasonable candidates step aside so we are left with candidates who are more likely to be stubborn and selfish. Possible bribery aside, it is an extremely selfless act to step aside in a final DP round to allow someone else to advance, and as soon as someone sets down and endorses someone else, the rest of the group have been beaten and they too fall in line. To me the person deserving of the DP IS the person who steps aside. I hope my delegate system turns this terribly flawed system upside down. When encountering a full group of real candidates, the delegate vote is up for grabs none of the candidates need to step aside (by the way this is betraying the people who got you there unless you consult them, did you tell them you wanted to become DP? Then act like it.) Personally I have no intention of becoming DP myself, in fact I really don't even try to pass tests unless I enjoy doing them. I usually prefer working on projects among friends. However I do believe that sometimes the easy going, helping people get stomped on in this game. Selfishness and small cliques propels people to the top. Part of my delegate idea is to provide a voice for the non-power players. In fact one of my constituents tells me that it was the declaration that "I was a DP before" that influenced him/her to not support either of the candidates in my second round.

Group Stage One

In my first group stage I had an idea. This idea came from what I had heard had happened, through a friend of the final DP group stage in the previous DP election. The idea was to carry forward the votes of anyone who didn't want to continue in the election, but didn't want to throw their vote away on someone that they personally would not vote for in the popular election. My idea was to forward to them the list of candidates and what was said, and if they wished I could forward their questions to the candidates to be answered. In the end two of the group members voted for me and I advanced to the next round. Once it was apparent I was advancing I added the idea that I would be impartial and for this reason I would not count myself among the constituents. My plan also included to them the opportunity to choose to vote for me again if they did not want to select anyone from my next group. I advised them that in that case I would make the offer to that next group to also become constituents carried forward in my single vote. After discussing with some people the number of groups I was worried that the next group would be the final group (as it was), and I did express that likelihood to my two constituents.

Group Stage Two

Personal Comments on this transcript

The following is a transcript of the DP discussion in my group. This transcript was kept up to date for the purpose of helping my constituents decide on who I will be voting for. Gaps in the conversation represent time gaps. I missed copying some of the initial hellos and will try to record everything that is said to the best of my ability. My constituents posed no questions for the candidates, and I do not consider it the role of a delegate to ask questions for them. The outcome of the vote was a deadlock 1 vote for me (by myself on direction from my constituents) and 1 vote for Bryce voting for himself. This possible outcome was understood by my constituents, and was entered in about 6 hours before the end of the round. I can understand some of the frustration expressed, in the lack of communication in this round. There was no active communication between candidates, two of the "group members" never said a word and one other didn't say much, and in the end didn't vote. In all of this I really only feel bad for Osidion who seemed present and willing to talk about anything. In my small talk with him he seemed like a nice genuine guy. I don't understand why some of the people never said anything and didn't vote, however with this being the case I do maybe feel like this was a broken group. If those empty spots were filled with delegates representing honestly previous groups, then it could have possibly created a more active environment for the real candidates.

Group Transcript

Welcome illusid, Osidion, Kimber, Yondri, Vivix, Bryce.

Vivix: Hello everybody. I come with a mandate from my group to either go for it, or elect someone sensible.

Bryce: hi Vivix

Bryce: don't know about sensible, but i believe i have the qualities and qualifications to make an excellant dp

Osidion: Hello DP hopefuls :D

illusid: Hi Osidion although I am an elected delegate representing my constituents not a DP hopeful =)

Osidion: Well hello Illusid, please, call me Osi :D

Osidion: I am Hopeful, and hopefully there will be a bit more discussion this round than last :D

illusid: heya Osi anyhow just to explain what I mean a little bit, I have no desire to be DP but im not here from a default situation. I've heard abot serious problems in the later DP rounds where u have everyone there, someone who really wants to be elected DP

illusid: My idea was to go forward as a representative of the votes of anyone who didnt want to advance but also didnt want to give up their right to choose who is on the final ballot

illusid: i might actually try to expand this to include more people than myself and make a guild out of it but generally I'm here to listen and relay information to the people I represent and allow them to vote on who I vote for

Osidion: Can i ask what it is in a person that you and the people you represent would like to see in a DP candidate?

illusid: I can get back to you on that and I will likely forward a question or two from my constituents, but the vote really is literaly up to them as I will remain in contact and forward what is said here

Osidion: Ok, fair enough :D

illusid: I mean im happy to spout off personal opinions, but they won't nessecarily be representative of how I will vote. =)

illusid: but any dialogue is likely to help people make a better decision on who to vote for although I would suspect most if not everyone else is looking to be elected

Osidion: Yes, dialogue IS a good thing and i personally think it should be one of the quailties in a good DP :D

Osidion: So, whats "your" opinion of what qualities a DP candidate have?

Osidion: erm

Osidion: - should have*

illusid: well stable is good and i generally like people who work for the good of all of us above themselves

Osidion: back, had to walk my dogs :D

illusid: wb =)

Osidion: thanx :D

illusid: did u participate in the last dp elections osidion? and how far did u go if you did

illusid: sorry Osi =)

Osidion: yes i did participate in the last elections but i did not advance past the first round as i voted for someone else

Osidion: let me just say, i have been playing since T2 and have actively sought DP in the game, each tale i have made it to final voting at least once, and made DP in T5 :D

Osidion: And kind of like the role you are taking, i'd rather see someone more qualified than me go on the DP than me just passing a test

illusid: to me i think one of the greatest qualifications is to be able to step aside

illusid: especially when it comes to rounds where everyone there obviously has put a lot of effort into convinceing people they would make a good DP

Osidion: Actually, the ones i vote for have usually convinced me outside of DP rounds that they should get the shot :D

Osidion: by what they do and how they act towards others ingame

illusid: well I mean in say the sase last round I had a close friend in the final lulu round

illusid: everyone of them there wanted to advance to the open election, but they were in the messed up situation of noone else there to choose between them but themselves

illusid: this is the problem i see inherient in the group voting system

illusid: its more likely that the most reasonable among them will be the one to step aside at that point because why make it a tie?

Osidion: exactly

illusid: but then also its unfair to people who had supported people through a couple rounds of voting to be the one to step aside for someone they themselves might not nesssecarily support

illusid: anyhow im mostly stuck on this to explain my purpose here more than anything, I think the idea of throwing all the people trying to win DP into a group and making them vote on each other doesnt work very well.

Bryce: am curious, are we going to have a debate or discussion on reaching a consensus on who should be voted to go to the next round? 1 day 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Bryce: some of my qualifications are; i've played here since T2 so i know the norms and boundaries of the society, i've been a dp before so i understand the responsibilities of the position,

Bryce: and i have more experience than anyone in the game dealing with the sorts of disputes that usually requre a dp's intervention, as i am part of a mediation board that meets 3 times a month to mediate auto medical claims. i use those skills a lot to settle disputes and reach a consensus here, also.

illusid: Bryce it may have gotten scrolled off the screen for you, but i will reitterate, I was elected by my constituents to serve as a delegate in this round. my vote is solely determined by those who put me here. anything said here I will be posting to the wiki for them to read and decide on who to elect.

1 day 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Bryce: am curious, are we going to have a debate or discussion on reaching a consensus on who should be voted to go to the next round?

1 day 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Bryce: some of my qualifications are; i've played here since T2 so i know the norms and boundaries of the society, i've been a dp before so i understand the responsibilities of the position,

Bryce: and i have more experience than anyone in the game dealing with the sorts of disputes that usually requre a dp's intervention, as i am part of a mediation board that meets 3 times a month to mediate auto medical claims. i use those skills a lot to settle disputes and reach a consensus here, also.

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illusid: Bryce it may have gotten scrolled off the screen for you, but i will reitterate, I was elected by my constituents to serve as a delegate in this round. my vote is solely determined by those who put me here. anything said here I will be posting to the wiki for them to read and decide on who to elect.

illusid: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale6/Illusid/Delegate

1 day 2 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day 1 hour left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 1 day left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 23 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round. 22 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Bryce: i understand your purpose here, illusid. I've never been in a dp round where I was not able to have a discussion and have a consensus formed as to who should advance. Bryce: it has not always been myself, of course, but the rounds I have been in, i have been able to take 7 ppl, all who are interested in becoming dp, and reach a decision as to who should advance.

21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.

Bryce: I am not interested in becoming a dp just to pass a test. In my experience here, if you have a dp that is skilled in negotiations and mediation, they are able to diffuse the situation and get the parties to hopefully alter their behaviour and reach an agreement.

Bryce: i have done that unofficially, and officially since i started this game. Being a DP would allow me more opportunitites to mediate the various disputes that arise here.

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Bryce: I had hoped to have some discussion with the rest of the candidates in this round regarding your candidates qualifications, reasons, and observations about becoming a DP.

Bryce: Since no one except myself has posted any qualifications, thoughts on what they would do as a DP, or given me any reason to vote for them, AND because I will not be on again until after the deadline for voting, I am forced to vote for who I believe would make the best DP from this group, which, based on the game and r/l experience I have, would be myself.

Bryce: And i would ask for all of you to support me in my bid to become the next DP

Vivix: Yes, that's a normal way to see it.

Bryce: I don't like to vote until the group has reached a consensus, but as no one else has really spoken, i don't have a choice

Bryce voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.

Osidion: you and i and Illusid have been the only ones to really speak at all :|

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illusid: Ok this is the situation with my vote after consulting with my constituents (only two of them for the record) One has expressed no preference at all, and the other has instructed me to vote for myself and "hope for a better selection next round" tbh I don't even know if there will be a next round, and I hope none of you take this personally.

illusid: I do however extend the offer to serve as the delegate for any of you. I did not intend to advace past this round as I worry that it may be the last before a general election.

illusid: And good luck to all of you in this and future elections!

illusid voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.

Reaction to the vote

My comments on the outcome

I feel the outcome of this election was a total success. The voice of my constituents was heard. As I explained the Bryce in the private conversation transcript below, I was representing two constituents and not myself in my vote. One constituent voted to abstain, he indicated he did not care who or if anyone went forward from my round. The other constituent requested that I vote for myself. His/Her intention was to create a deadlock and prevent Bryce from advancing unless someone else decided to vote for me or Bryce. The conversation I had with Bryce after the election makes me even feel on a personal level that the vote of my constituents was the right one. I feel that in the transcript below from our private conversation he has shown to me that he either doesn't pay attention to what people are saying or simple ignores it. Had he checked this page he would have been able to read everything that he missed in the conversation (the fact that Osidion also wanted to advance). I also feel that his general tone was confrontational, and his reaction to me personally was hostile. This is exactly why constituents will remain unnamed unless they wish to come forward on their own. I have put a lot of effort into creating this page and communicating with my constituents. Certainly more than Bryce spent on talking to peers of our group. I have never chatted with Bryce before that I can recall, perhaps the constituent who wanted to keep Bryce off the popular ballot has, i don't know. I was kind of shocked to wake up to charges of not doing what I said I would do, and a little 'friendly? caps lock in my chat windows. People commonly ask what do you want in a DP? I answered Osi in our group discussion, my number one quality is for a candidate to be stable. To me this means asking questions, understanding a situation and responding to it in a way that doesn't have the tendency to escalate the situation into a shouting match.

Transcript

Bryce: i don't understand. you were a "delegate" you did not intend to advance past the this round, so why did you vote for yourself???

Bryce: since you did, you deadlocked the vote, since no one else voted, and no one advanced.

Bryce: please explain why your actions were exactly opposite what your words were.

Bryce: how incredible. do you not understand that by deadlocking the vote at one vote for both of us, NO ONE ADVANCES??????

Bryce: unbelievable.

illusid: i think maybe you didnt listen to what I said, noone I represented wanted to vote for you one said dont vote the other said vote for myself (the understood this created a deadlock)

Bryce: that is the stupidest thing i've heard

Bryce: so a deadlock is better than allowing me to advance?

illusid: I don't think you ever listened to anything I said did you?

Bryce: yes i did. you were there as a delegate i got that

illusid: you expect me to break my word to the people who elected me and ignore what they wanted me to do?

Bryce: you said that some said not to vote

Bryce: and some said they didn't care

Bryce: you broke your word to the group by not voting to allow someone to advance

illusid: 1 said he didnt care the other said vote for myself and maybe there is another round but noone did anything to show they deserved to advance

Bryce: so what did i NOT do to show i deserve to advance?

Bryce: i put down qualifications, and no one ever asked me a question, not even you

illusid: Obviously you also missed the point that I was impartial and my vote represented the wishes of my constituents? why are you asking me and acting irrational

Bryce: how can your constituents make a determination w/o asking any questions

Bryce: especially that not one other person gave their qualifications

illusid: they read what you and osi said from the wiki maybe they just don't like you or want to vote for someone else idk and it isnt my place to even ask them why they vote for who they vote for

Bryce: if they wanted you to vote for someone else they should have said

illusid: I meant they may have wanted someone else to become DP but this is just me guessing on their motives which really isn't any of my business, they put me in the round, they never gave up their rights to vote, the didn't want me to vote for you I'm sorry

Bryce: and you of course don't want to tell me their names

illusid: Is that an unfounded acusation that I am dishonest? Just beacuse you didn't advance in your video game?

Bryce: in all my time here in the game going back to tale 2 this is the stupidest thing i've come across in a dp round.

illusid: Or was it just meant to sound that way

Bryce: i am saying that you told us one thing and then did another.

illusid: I told you that my vote was controlled by my constituents, that I would relay to them everything that was said and they would determine what I did. This is exactly what I did, and the fact that one of them did not want you to advance and the other didn't care if any of you advanced they got exactly what they wanted which was my promise to them

Bryce: so you have 2 constituents then.

illusid: To be frank the whole tone of your conversation seemed like your entitled to advance when the only person who voted for you was yourself I suppose?

illusid: Thats who I was representing from the first round that is correct. They thought it was a good idea to keep their right to control who advances into the 3rd round.

Bryce: i am not saying that i am entitled to anything. i am saying that i find it logical that since i am the only person that expressed a desire to move on, that it would be logical for me to do so.

Bryce: anyway, i have taken up more than enough of your time. enjoy your weekend.

illusid: That isn't true Osi also desired to move on, however I guess he did not vote.

Bryce: i didn't see him express any reasons why he wanted to, had he, i could have considered voting for him.

illusid: I think when he talked most of what he said would have gotten cutten off during our conversation, while you were offline

illusid: however you could have read it on my wiki along with my constituents

illusid: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale6/Illusid/Delegate

illusid: the fact that you two never talked and decided who to vote for, and the fact that there were other people in the group who never said a word I'm not sure how I can be put to blame for anything

Bryce: i'm beating a dead horse, and i apologize for that. i disagree with what you did, and will leave it at that. you have your reasons, and you have expressed them.

illusid: ok well good luck in the future

Bryce: i appreciate that. i've taken more of your time than i intended.

Bryce has left the channel.